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  #31  
Old 09-29-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
The point is that I am just curious how to go about reporting something in the future if I need to, and where others suggest that I draw the line for something that is reportable vs. something that I should ignore. I think I know where you stand on that.
Take 5, I understand where you're coming from, we're cool brother.

I'm just an old guy/child of the 60's/70's & struggle with this whole big brother mentality. When we look at the recent stuff out there regarding the NSA/home land security & roll AIS into the equation, I have to say WTF.

I don't want to be conceived as a Ruby Ridge wacko, but this is exactly the kind of stuff that happened in pre WW2 Germany & during the McCarthy area of our country. Since 911 America has become a different place.

See something suspicious, report it.
See something wrong, report it.
See someone that looked at you the wrong way, report it.
We hear this kind of stuff everyday.

I'm not paranoid, just can't believe that free thinking people are buying into this hog wash. But, that's me
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  #32  
Old 09-29-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

misfits - I struggle with those issues too, and don't like having a society where everyone snitches on each other. And if we actually get there, there will be so many "false alarms" that the system will collapse from its own weight. So it's a dual edged sword.

I'm not sure where we should draw the line on commercial traffic. I don't want to sound like I'm suspicious of our friends from overseas, but the fact that most of these large freighters are foreign flagged makes it a little more important to have them tracked IMO.

Also, every decade or so we have a large oil spill here on the Delaware. About 9 years ago, the Athos 1 hit an underwater submerged object that led to 265,000 gallons of crude oil spilling into the river. I would think that it would be helpful to have independent 3rd parties recording AIS tracks for such accidents, since investigations can sometimes lead to "he said she said" discrepancies. That's another reason why AIS transmissions for large vessels could be important.

FWIW, my own AIS system is receive only. I do not transmit my location, mainly because I think if every recreational vessel does so, the display will get too clogged with unnecessary traffic. But the big boys are always the stand on vessel relative to recreational traffic, so I'd like to see where they are on AIS.
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  #33  
Old 09-29-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

"Since 911 America has become a different place. "
I'd have to pretty much agree with you. Al-Q won that war, they curtailed our society forever. Anyone who thinks otherwise, can explain why we've run an undeclared war in the middle east ever since and how the War Powers Act failed to accomplish the goal of never having another Vietnam.
Then they can explain why Congress and the US airline industry both got away with pretending they didn't enable Al-Q by ignoring global flight security standards.
Meanwhile, this is what we've got and I don't think reporting a drunk driver is being a good little German, I think it is a matter of reporting it instead of dealing with it the old fashioned way, which would be boarding the vessel and keelhauling the master for his negligence. Or banning Liberian flag vessels from US "domestic" trade.
There's no end to the nonsense but the bottom line is that a vessel not keeping watch and not complying with safety standards, is a disaster waiting to happen.
Oh, wait, after Tom Clancy's blockbuster book and novel (more than 10 years before 9/11) with the premise that a jumbo jet would make a mighty fine bomb...Right, we've proven the value of ignoring the improbable.
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  #34  
Old 09-29-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

A commercial vessel that is required to have AIS does not mean that that vessel cannot operate if there is a problem with the unit, what it means is that vessel must report the problem to their own flag state and the flag state/port authority of any countries they are visiting....

The vessel can/will be issued an exemption for a set period to effect repairs. At one stage we had no AIS for two weeks and visited thee different ports until a technician (at the third port) was available to rectify the problem, we had an exemption and followed procedure, all above board and perfectly legal...
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  #35  
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Since 911 America has become a different place. "
I'd have to pretty much agree with you. Al-Q won that war, they curtailed our society forever...
It's clear that that the country has been severely divided ever since our marches to war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Arab spring, etc., and even domestic policy has been wracked by partisanship (largely over the reckless spending that accelerated during those wars).

But I think it's a severe overstatement to suggest that AQ has won any war and/or succeed at "curtailing" anything irrevocably. Our country is a better place than you portray.
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  #36  
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post

....... But the big boys are always the stand on vessel relative to recreational traffic, so I'd like to see where they are on AIS.
Huh? Perhaps in a TSS. What COLREGS section would you be referring to?
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  #37  
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

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Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Huh? Perhaps in a TSS. What COLREGS section would you be referring to?
Part B, Section 1:

Quote:
18. Responsibilities between vessels
Except in narrow channels, traffic separation schemes, and when overtaking (i.e., rules 9, 10, and 13)
... A sailing vessel must give way to:
...
a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
I dare you to find any non-emergency situation where a vessel like Polarstream that is underway at cruising speed in the channel should give way to a 25' sailboat like mine.
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Last edited by TakeFive; 09-29-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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  #38  
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Part B, Section 1:



I dare you to find any non-emergency situation where a vessel like Polarstream that is underway at cruising speed in the channel should give way to a 25' sailboat like mine.
Is the channel a TSS? If so your correct, but you original post did not specify channel. Otherwise that vessel at cruising speed and over taking you, you are the stand on vessel and it is the giveaway vessel.

By the way if it is going at cruising speed which I assume is 20 plus knots, that does not restricted it from maneuverability. If you are stand on it, it may have to slow down
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Last edited by cupper3; 09-29-2013 at 11:19 PM.
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  #39  
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Is the channel a TSS? If so your correct, but you original post did not specify channel. Otherwise that vessel at cruising speed and over taking you, you are the stand on vessel and it is the giveaway vessel.

By the way if it is going at cruising speed which I assume is 20 plus knots, that does not restricted it from maneuverability. If you are stand on it, it may have to slow down
The only TSS that I am aware of is at the entrance to the Delaware Bay (see chart 12214). We are 100 miles upriver from that. There is a channel in my part of the river, but it is not part of a TSS.

There is no way that am the stand on vessel if one of those tankers is bearing down on me in the channel. Anyone who travels this river would realize how absurd that suggestion is.

If you reread the COLREG that I posted, it clearly says that it applies to areas where there is NOT a TSS:

Quote:
Except in narrow channels, traffic separation schemes, and when overtaking (i.e., rules 9, 10, and 13)
... A sailing vessel must give way to:
...
a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
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  #40  
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
The only TSS that I am aware of is at the entrance to the Delaware Bay (see chart 12214). We are 100 miles upriver from that. There is a channel in my part of the river, but it is not part of a TSS.

There is no way that am the stand on vessel if one of those tankers is bearing down on me in the channel. Anyone who travels this river would realize how absurd that suggestion is.

If you reread the COLREG that I posted, it clearly says that it applies to areas where there is NOT a TSS:
Restricted in maneuvering has a specific meaning as per 3(g):

The term “vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre” means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. The term “vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre” shall include but not be limited to:
a vessel engaged in laying, servicing or picking up a navigation mark, submarine cable or pipeline;
a vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations;
a vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway;
a vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft;
a vessel engaged in mine clearance operations;
a vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.


As such, if you are under sail, you are stand on. Even if under power, you still are stand on in the case of being overtaken.
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Last edited by cupper3; 09-29-2013 at 11:55 PM.
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