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  #41  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Restricted in maneuvering has a specific meaning as per 3(g):

The term “vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre” means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. The term “vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre” shall include but not be limited to:
a vessel engaged in laying, servicing or picking up a navigation mark, submarine cable or pipeline;
a vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations;
a vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway;
a vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft;
a vessel engaged in mine clearance operations;
a vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.
You can keep trying to convince me that I would be the stand-on vessel if Polarstream was bearing down on me in the channel. I'm just not buying it. My opinion is that I'd need to get the hell out of his way or get run over. There is no way that guy is going to slow down for me. I'd expect the same to be true in the Chesapeake shipping lanes, which are considerably wider than in the Delaware River.

Maybe someone else here can jump in with their opinion. I just don't see how in the world I could be the stand-on vessel vs. an 11,000 tonne vessel. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The implications of what you are saying are huge. If I am the stand-on vessel, I am REQUIRED to maintain course and speed and force him to go around me. In effect, I am NOT ALLOWED to get out of his way. That's just crazy.
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Last edited by TakeFive; 09-30-2013 at 01:01 AM.
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  #42  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

While I completely agree that Big Bro is out of control, it seems to me that almost all our big cities are on waterfronts and all those tankers and container ships ships present a BIG risk. Those who believe the nut jobs are not looking for weaknesses are living in a different century.
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  #43  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
You can keep trying to convince me that I would be the stand-on vessel if Polarstream was bearing down on me in the channel. I'm just not buying it. My opinion is that I'd need to get the hell out of his way or get run over. There is no way that guy is going to slow down for me. I'd expect the same to be true in the Chesapeake shipping lanes, which are considerably wider than in the Delaware River.

Maybe someone else here can jump in with their opinion. I just don't see how in the world I could be the stand-on vessel vs. an 11,000 tonne vessel. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The implications of what you are saying are huge. If I am the stand-on vessel, I am REQUIRED to maintain course and speed and force him to go around me. In effect, I am NOT ALLOWED to get out of his way. That's just crazy.
I understand your point but look at it this way.

If only you and him and no other vessels around and you make an early and obvious course change you are in compliance with COLREGS . Don't forget that vessel very likely know you're there and is presuming you will act according to COLREGS.

The issue gets complicated if there is a lot of traffic. If everyone is following COLREGS , then there's not a problem. Those other vessels may well be expecting you to continue to be stand on and are just doing their course accordingly. If however you make an unexpected move that is outside of what COLREGS call for it could well lead to a domino effect of vessels attempting to avoid collisions.

Those rules are there for a reason.
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  #44  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

The snag with COLREG collision rules are exactly when they go in effect. We would all agree that spotting a tanker on the horizon would not cause one to assess stand-on rules. But when do you?

Common sense would cause a 25 ft sailboat to get out of the way of a tanker, long before the COLREGS rules even mattered. I think that's ultimately TakeFive's point.

Also recall, regardless of stand-on rules, all vessels are required to take whatever action necessary to avoid a collision. If you should be able to reasonably assess a tanker would not be able to make the evasive maneuvers necessary to comply with the stand-on rules for you situation, but you could, you would be expected to get the heck out of the way. Stand-on or not. Life just ain't as simple as writing a computer program to solve for every encounter.
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  #45  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Once past the TSS and inside the COLREG line, in a channel, by the rules, a large, faster overtaking vessel is SUPPOSED TO make contact with a smaller, slow moving boat to arrange a passage. Since it seems that these large vessels may not even speak English and will probably ignore this rule, the only sane option is GTH out of the way. The best option is to stay right out of channels such as on the Delaware Bay or Chesapeake. Even where these channels narrow down, there's usually plenty of water to stay outside. I always make sure I'm well out of channels like this so I'm not worrying about being run down by tankers and such. If you're in water that is too shallow for them, they can't get you:-)
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  #46  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

All large vessels in the Delaware River shipping channel are restricted in movement, and some especially the LNG carriers have USCG and tug escorts.

Occasionally I will see a large vessel making the sharp turn at the Tinicum Range/Chester Range turn with a tug assist to make the turn. Ships and barges will also have tug assist (often two tugs) in the shipping channel when getting underway at the general anchorage of Marcus Hook and off PHL airport.

I don't have AIS so stay well clear of larger vessels, the value of AIS is in part to know the intentions of the larger vessels; speed, direction, destination,... with that information I would be able like TakeFive to better judge when and if it is safe to enter the shipping channel. There are sections of the river where staying out of the channel is not an option.

I don't know the legal requirements, but for the safety of shipping on the river, large vessels running without AIS creates a potential hazard to other vessels.

While I have concerns about government monitoring of private activity without a warrant, operating a pleasure vessel in navigable waters is a regulated activity not a private activity.
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  #47  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Rick,
The Coast Guard monitors 16, so a transmission like this repeated twice:

"Polarstream, Polarstream, Polarstream, this is the sailing vessel TakeFive passing to your port. Please be aware that your AIS is not transmitting."

In those two transmissions you've made Polarstream aware (if they're listening) and you've made the Coast Guard aware (they are listening). If they're having equipment problems that the CG is already aware of, no harm no foul. Otherwise you've brought the situation to the CG's attention and the ship's attention.


As for being the stand on vessel:
I used to sail a 22 footer on the Delaware. You learn VERY quickly to stay well away from barge and ship traffic.

Only a fool would put themselves and their guests lives at risk by trying to prove something to a ship. If there was a ship or barge headed my way I made sure I was well out of the channel. The big boys move FAST and there is no guarantee they see you. You only have to look at the fatal collision between a barge and a Duck Tour boat on the Delaware to see my point.

By staying clear Rick is being prudent and safe.
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  #48  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

You are not wrong. The ships in the upper Chessie and your location will run aground if they go outside the channel. Thus they are stand-on, not you. We actually had a tanker have to get around a sailboat just north of the Bay Bridge and get stuck on the bar at Sandy Point. The sailboat owner got the bill for the tow and it wasn't cheap.

As for AIS, I had a car carrier pass close aboard with no AIS. I called them and they said "That thing is broken again"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
You can keep trying to convince me that I would be the stand-on vessel if Polarstream was bearing down on me in the channel. I'm just not buying it. My opinion is that I'd need to get the hell out of his way or get run over. There is no way that guy is going to slow down for me. I'd expect the same to be true in the Chesapeake shipping lanes, which are considerably wider than in the Delaware River.

Maybe someone else here can jump in with their opinion. I just don't see how in the world I could be the stand-on vessel vs. an 11,000 tonne vessel. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The implications of what you are saying are huge. If I am the stand-on vessel, I am REQUIRED to maintain course and speed and force him to go around me. In effect, I am NOT ALLOWED to get out of his way. That's just crazy.
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  #49  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coquina View Post
You are not wrong. The ships in the upper Chessie and your location will run aground if they go outside the channel. Thus they are stand-on, not you. We actually had a tanker have to get around a sailboat just north of the Bay Bridge and get stuck on the bar at Sandy Point. The sailboat owner got the bill for the tow and it wasn't cheap.

As for AIS, I had a car carrier pass close aboard with no AIS. I called them and they said "That thing is broken again"
Agreed if they are constrained by draft. That was not apparent in the discussion up to this point.
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  #50  
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Maybe someone else here can jump in with their opinion. I just don't see how in the world I could be the stand-on vessel vs. an 11,000 tonne vessel. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't think you're wrong. I do not know all the regs but something about maneuverability comes to mind. I don't know the Delaware River but if that ship was in a "shipping lane", they would be the stand on vessel.

When the LPG tankers come into Boston harbor & you're even remotely in the way, they let you know.
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