How to report AIS violations? - Page 6 - SailNet Community
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post #51 of 62 Old 09-30-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

I've often marveled about how the most trivial issues seem to turn into major debates up here. But I never thought that the idea of recreational sailboats giving way to an 11,000 tonne freighter would be debatable. This has to be a new record!


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post #52 of 62 Old 09-30-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Hence why they are a number of wreckreational sailors out there.....


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post #53 of 62 Old 10-01-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I've often marveled about how the most trivial issues seem to turn into major debates up here. But I never thought that the idea of recreational sailboats giving way to an 11,000 tonne freighter would be debatable. This has to be a new record!
COLREGS are not trivial. There are parts of the world (England) that will fine you if you are not following them and that 11,000 tonne freighter reports you because you caused him or another ship to alter course because you did not do what was expected.

As I wrote earlier, if your altering course impacts other traffic who thought you would follow COLREGS correctly, and they then have to alter course as a result, you may well hear a lot of resentment on the VHF.

If the area is a channel which the vessels are restricted by draught or in a narrow channel and you are less than 20 meters, then of course they are stand on. However, Rule 9 does not negate Rule 13, overtaking.



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post #54 of 62 Old 10-01-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

'Trivial" was the wrong word. I should have said "obvious." A small sailboat giving way to an 11,000 tonne freighter is "obvious" and non-debatable. Yet you still insist on debating it. Have fun with that one.


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post #55 of 62 Old 10-01-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
.....A small sailboat giving way to an 11,000 tonne freighter is "obvious" and non-debatable. Yet you still insist on debating it. Have fun with that one.
In practical terms, you are absolutely right. However, you introduced this line of discussion by using the technical term, stand-on, and declared that recreational traffic is stand-on to commercial. That is not what the COLREGs actually say, as there are only specific commercial vessels that are high up the food chain, or draft issues, or nuances when collision avoidance even goes into affect. Therefore, you got a form over function debate.

I think it makes everyone sharper to actually discuss the rules, despite the futility in this case. No one would stand-on until they were dead right.


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post #56 of 62 Old 10-01-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
In practical terms, you are absolutely right. However, you introduced this line of discussion by using the technical term, stand-on, and declared that recreational traffic is stand-on to commercial...
I never said that. In fact, it is the opposite of what I said. I said that I would be the give way vessel. It was cupper3 who said that I would be the stand on vessel:
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...Otherwise that vessel at cruising speed and over taking you, you are the stand on vessel and it is the giveaway vessel...


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post #57 of 62 Old 10-01-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
COLREGS are not trivial. There are parts of the world (England) that will fine you if you are not following them and that 11,000 tonne freighter reports you because you caused him or another ship to alter course because you did not do what was expected.

As I wrote earlier, if your altering course impacts other traffic who thought you would follow COLREGS correctly, and they then have to alter course as a result, you may well hear a lot of resentment on the VHF.

If the area is a channel which the vessels are restricted by draught or in a narrow channel and you are less than 20 meters, then of course they are stand on. However, Rule 9 does not negate Rule 13, overtaking.
Colregs:
They're restricted by draft in a channel; I'm required to stay out of the way.

Outside a narrow channel, if I see a ship or barge headed my way I'll make a clear course change that moves me AWAY from a point of possible collision such that my intentions are clear. If I'm even remotely close I'll hail them on 13 and let them know my intentions.

Common Sense:
Stay the hell away from something that is huge, can't stop or steer very well in close quarters, may not see you and can surely kill you.

Is there really something to debate here??????


I'm just glad I don't have to deal with ship traffic where I sail now...

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post #58 of 62 Old 10-01-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
Colregs:
They're restricted by draft in a channel; I'm required to stay out of the way.

Outside a narrow channel, if I see a ship or barge headed my way I'll make a clear course change that moves me AWAY from a point of possible collision such that my intentions are clear. If I'm even remotely close I'll hail them on 13 and let them know my intentions.

Common Sense:
Stay the hell away from something that is huge, can't stop or steer very well in close quarters, may not see you and can surely kill you.

Is there really something to debate here??????
Exactly...

For me, only one rule applies when running a body of water like Delaware Bay:

Size Matters...








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post #59 of 62 Old 10-01-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

I believe this is known as the "Gross Tonnage" rule....

Not written down but then again, who wants to be dead-right ?

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post #60 of 62 Old 10-01-2013
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Re: How to report AIS violations?

I *am* frequently the stand-on vessel when encountering large ships NOT in the Bay. This may be an area not experienced by many who sail mostly in their local area. It is VERY confusing to the ship if I start doing random stuff when they expect me by the COLREGS to keep going. I will call them on the VHF and ask what their plans are. If I can't raise them we assume no one is on the bridge. Then we revert to "Monty Python" colregs, i.e RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!

This is entirely logical. A power boat, even a 900 foot long one, can change course out in the ocean to avoid one sailing vessel. This same ship in the Bay cannot do so without either running aground or hitting some OTHER sailboat. A small fleet of sailboats could effectively bring shipping to a halt in a confined area. In the ocean - not so much.

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Last edited by Coquina; 10-01-2013 at 10:10 AM.
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