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Old 09-29-2013
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Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

If you were in the market for a replacement boat, which of the two below would you buy to suit your needs, which boat would be the better buy.
One is a steel 36' Van De Stadt Ocean Cruising Yawl, the second is a plastic Irwin 37 Center Cockpit Cruising Ketch.
(Sorry I can't publish the URL's to the two boats, I don't have enough points)

I would be full-time live aboard, (one man and his dog) cruising the Australian East coast and Top-End, with “perhaps” a trip into SE Asia, so I would like to be reasonably comfortable. Which of the two boats would be most suitable for single handed cruising, getting into shallow bays/rivers and which would be the easiest to maintain and carry-out repairs on, when and if needed. (I can stick metal together but I'm not the best welder around)

Thanks in advance for your views.

Bill
Australian
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Old 09-29-2013
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Re: Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillAU View Post
If you were in the market for a replacement boat, which of the two below would you buy to suit your needs, which boat would be the better buy.
One is a steel 36' Van De Stadt Ocean Cruising Yawl, the second is a plastic Irwin 37 Center Cockpit Cruising Ketch.
Sorry, Bill, but without details on the specifics of both boats any advice you get here is not likely to be worth much. You may get a plastic vs steel debate started, but that's not what you're looking for, or are you?

You should note that Van de Stadt is a naval architect, not a boat builder. They are well respected designers of metal offshore boats, but the quality of any specific VdS designed boat will depend as much or more on who actually built the boat. If it was built by a recognized yard in Europe or Oz, it may be first rate, although it's age and the quality/consistency of its maintenance will also be very important drivers of its current value. If it was home-built, you should probably give it a miss unless the guy who built it was a professional shipwright working on his boat nights and weekends.

Others may have general comments in Irwins.

PS. I have owned a professionally built VdS steel sailboat for 14 years and although keeping the rust at bay is a routine aspect of ownership, she is as strong today as he day she was built almost 20 years ago. I have never had second thoughts about the design or construction material. Nothing beats it for bouncing off rocks or surviving a grounding on a coral reef.
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Old 09-29-2013
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Re: Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

See the thread about labor costs:

$95.00 an hour. phew

Get the one that needs no work now, or in the future.

You say 'plastic' so you are obviously set against non-steel boats. But you need to be very aware of the heart rending knowledge that you boat a boat that deteriorates faster thasn you can fix it.

Boats are meant to be sailed, not a new job for life.
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Re: Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

Bellerophon (to be formal) has a good point about build quality being a factor. Though they do seem primarily to be a design firm, VandeStadt does offer production boats on their website. A series-built steel boat from them might offer better quality construction than an amateur build, or at least a known quality level. Find out who built the steel boat. With Australia known for its coral reefs, eventually finding one with your boat makes steel a good candidate. While VandeStadt's designs are not now famous for racing speed, they do have a reputation for sailing well. Irwins, on the other hand, are not generally known for fantastic build quality or sailing ability. They do offer a lot of living space below if that is what you need. If you stay tied to the dock, finding a coral reef with your boat will take much longer and fiberglass would not be a disadvantage. The choice depends a lot on what you really want to do with the boat and it's current condition. One final caveat that Billyruffin also mentioned: rust never sleeps.
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Re: Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyruffn View Post
Sorry, Bill, but without details on the specifics of both boats any advice you get here is not likely to be worth much. You may get a plastic vs steel debate started, but that's not what you're looking for, or are you?

You should note that Van de Stadt is a naval architect, not a boat builder. They are well respected designers of metal offshore boats, but the quality of any specific VdS designed boat will depend as much or more on who actually built the boat. If it was built by a recognized yard in Europe or Oz, it may be first rate, although it's age and the quality/consistency of its maintenance will also be very important drivers of its current value. If it was home-built, you should probably give it a miss unless the guy who built it was a professional shipwright working on his boat nights and weekends.

Others may have general comments in Irwins.

PS. I have owned a professionally built VdS steel sailboat for 14 years and although keeping the rust at bay is a routine aspect of ownership, she is as strong today as he day she was built almost 20 years ago. I have never had second thoughts about the design or construction material. Nothing beats it for bouncing off rocks or surviving a grounding on a coral reef.
Thanks for your views, pity I can't publish the URL's for the two boats but as I said, I don't have enough posts

Bill
Australia
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Re: Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

Try something like "three w's dot.......dot com".
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Re: Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
See the thread about labor costs:

Get the one that needs no work now, or in the future.

You say 'plastic' so you are obviously set against non-steel boats. But you need to be very aware of the heart rending knowledge that you boat a boat that deteriorates faster thasn you can fix it.

Boats are meant to be sailed, not a new job for life.
Get the one that needs no work now, or in the future. You're kidding Mark...Ain't ya mate
Being a retired marine engineer, deep sea merchant service, I can do most of the work that would need doing on a boat...Not everything but most everything
As for being set against fiberglass, no mate, I'm not. I'm not set against any boat built from whatever material. I had my eye on a beaut Ferro Cement Hartley Fijian, it's in the process of being built and has never been on the water but the Hartley needs to much work for this old codger so I decided to make a play for the ketch or the Yawl. The VDS Yawl has been well cared for and is a beauty to be sure, anyway, we'll see how things go.
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Re: Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk View Post
Bellerophon (to be formal) has a good point about build quality being a factor. Though they do seem primarily to be a design firm, VandeStadt does offer production boats on their website. A series-built steel boat from them might offer better quality construction than an amateur build, or at least a known quality level. Find out who built the steel boat. With Australia known for its coral reefs, eventually finding one with your boat makes steel a good candidate. While VandeStadt's designs are not now famous for racing speed, they do have a reputation for sailing well. Irwins, on the other hand, are not generally known for fantastic build quality or sailing ability. They do offer a lot of living space below if that is what you need. If you stay tied to the dock, finding a coral reef with your boat will take much longer and fiberglass would not be a disadvantage. The choice depends a lot on what you really want to do with the boat and it's current condition. One final caveat that Billyruffin also mentioned: rust never sleeps.
As I have said in the replies above, the VDS is a beauty, following is the text from the sellers sales page.
Quote:
Professionally built. Van De Stadt design. Brand New Beta Marine Diesel 30HP, 2012. Less than 70 Hrs. 100Amp alternator. Dripless stern gland (PPS) S/Steel deck/cockpit drains/all skin fittings, rudder stern tube. In 2000 sandblasted inside and out, completely replaced any rust spots with new BHP steel (not patched - replated). Electric toilet, freshwater/seawater taps. All sails in good condition, Depth sounder/fish finder/autopilot. Good size V-berth, head, 6'6'' headroom, two full length lounges and one quarter berth, can sleep 5. Great ocean sailing boat, set up for single handed sailing. Steel hull in excellent condition. Decks/cockpit due to be painted..... Draft 6'', round bilge steel hull with a full length keel. 150 Ltrs water, 100Ltrs fuel. Practical galley (rebuilt 2000). Genuine buyers only and sea trials only after payment of a deposit. This vessel is a genuine sea-going, round-the-world vessel. Apart from being a proud fifty-year-old classic, she was built by a master craftsman. I have sailed her numerous times from Cape York to Southport. Under previous owners, she circumnavigated New Guinea, Australia, and went out to Tahiti and back. Price reduced for quick sale. Would consider swap for campervan/land/fishing boat of same value
By the look of the pictures, I believe the boat "was" built by a master craftsman.

Here is the text from the sales-page for the Irwin 37.
Quote:
Near new 56 Hp Yanmar diesel for this boat plus 5 kva genset, new 37 lt/hr water-maker and new Raymarine C97 Plotter. The rigging was new in 2006. For the price this boat has a lot to offer.
Designer: Ted Irwin
Builder: Irwin Yachts, St Petersburg, Fl, USA
Year: 1972
Dimensions: LOA: 12.5 m (41')
LOD: 11.2 m (37')
Beam: 3.50 m (11.5')
Draft: 1.21 m (4')
Weights: 9,000 kg
Keel: 3/4 cruising keel with skeg hung rudder
Lead ballast
Construction: Hull: Solid GRP (fibreglass)
Deck: GRP
Machinery:

Engine: 56 Hp Yanmar 4JH5E 4-cylinder diesel (factory new in 2010)
Hours: 720
Cooling System: Heat exchanger
Gearbox: Yanmar
Drive: Shaft
Propeller: Bronze 17" 3-blade fixed
Fuel Consumption: 2.3 lt/hr @ 2100 rpm
Cruising Speed: 6 kn
Full Speed: 7.75 kn
Generator: 5 kva Northern Lights
Fuel Tanks: 370 lt in GRP tanks
Water Tanks: 560 lt in GRP tanks
Electrics: 12v, 110v
Batteries: 2x 265 a/h service (new 2012) and 1 start
Charger/Inverter: Xantrex 2000
Charger: Xantrex
Electronics: Radios: Icom M504 VHF
GPS Plotter: Raymarine C97 (new 2012)
Radar: Raymarine 24 nm
Autopilot: Raymarine Autohelm series
Instruments: Compass
Rig: Ketch
Masts: Aluminium
Rigging: Stainless steel (new 2006)
Furler: 1
Sail Inventory: Mainsail, genoa, mizzen main, storm jib
Covers: Bimini
Deck Hardware: Barlow & Lewmar winches
Ground Tackle : Anchor Winch: Lofrans Project 1000 up/down with controls in cockpit
Anchors: Delta & Danforth
Chain: 60 m galvanised
Safety Gear: 4-person Plastimo Cruiser liferaft
Epirb, life-jackets, flares, life-sling, fire-extinguishers
Bilge Pumps: 1 automatic, 1 electric, 2 manual
Accommodation:

Interior: Moulded with timber trim
Headroom: 1.93 m
Cabins: Saloon, forward, aft
Berths: Queen aft, Double forward, convertible settee in saloon
Head: 2 manual
Holding Tank: 95 lt
Shower: In aft head
Galley: Stove: Attwood Wedgewood 3-burner gas
Fridge: 12v Frigoboat
Sink: 1 stainless steel
Dinghy/Aux: 8'9" Inflatable
15 Hp Yamaha outboard
Extras: 37 lt/hr water-maker (new 2012)
AM/FM/CD/MP3
Cockpit cushions
Cockpit table
Remarks: This boat is equipped for cruising.
Listing No: sb371 End Quote.

I plan on getting up to QLD to look over the VDS this week, perhaps I can look over both while I'm there, if I have the time, we'll see how things work-out.
Like I said, I plan on cruising the Australian East Coast, the Top-End and perhaps SE Asia

Thanks for your views

Last edited by BillAU; 09-29-2013 at 10:52 AM.
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Re: Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

Sounds like two good options....make sure you get a good surveyor and one with experience with steel boats.

On the VDS: 70 hours is hardly enough time to shake out a new engine, so have that looked at carefully as well. Check out the rep of the people who installed the engine.

Good luck.
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Re: Decisions Decisions. Which Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyruffn View Post
Sounds like two good options....make sure you get a good surveyor and one with experience with steel boats.

On the VDS: 70 hours is hardly enough time to shake out a new engine, so have that looked at carefully as well. Check out the rep of the people who installed the engine.

Good luck.
Thanks Billy, I believe I do have a couple of good options. I must admit I would rather have a well built Steel or Ferro Cement boat, no keel bolts to worry about Safety, not speed is important, I'm not interested in racing and I am a little concerned about buying a boat with a bolted on keel, as with Fiberglass boats. As the Irwin is American designed and built I was wondering, do they have a bolt-on keel or is the keel part of the hull, as with Ferro and Steel boats

I'll try posting the links to the boats that interest me, here's the link to the VDS:

36 ft Van de Stadt Yawl - Ocean Cruising Yacht | Sail Boats | Gumtree Australia Gold Coast City - Broadbeach Waters | 1014592649

Here's the link to the Irwin:
Irwin 37 Ketch

And here's the link to the Ferro Cement Hartley Fijian I mentioned in my earlier reply to MarkofSeaLife.
Used HARTLEY FIJIAN 43 Boat For Sale - boatpoint.com.au

Yippee the links work

Cheers,

Bill
Australia

Used HARTLEY FIJIAN 43 Boat For Sale - boatpoint.com.au

Last edited by BillAU; 09-29-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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