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  #31  
Old 10-04-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

That Catalina 25 is 2,900 lbs displacement.

The Catalina 27 is 6,240 lbs displacement.

There is little comparison between them.

The 27 is the smallest big boat and the 25 is the biggest little boat.

The basic rule is that you buy boats by the pound.
The 27 is twice the boat the 25 is.
I've sailed for a season or two on both of them and they are both great.

A 25 with an outboard is a lot of fun.
A 27 with an outboard is going to be way under-powered.
With an inboard you have a big boat feel.

The 27 being a big boat with an inboard can have lots of extra systems that are great to have but have to be surveyed and maintained.
Hot water, 110 system were pretty common.
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Last edited by davidpm; 10-04-2013 at 05:06 PM.
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  #32  
Old 10-04-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

Catalina 25 is 4400lbs, not 2900 (maybe that is the 22?). 27 is 6900 lbs. The point is still completely valid.

25 is a great first boat because in the right wind it feels more like an agile small boat, but it is cruiseable. It's easy to figure out from the 25 if you are interested in more performance oriented or more cruiser oriented boats in the future.

The 25 is a very cheap boat to maintain. The systems are trivial: hand pump water, outboard, simple electrical with <10 circuits, and a transom hung rudder. The 27 has quite a bit more stuff which means more to spend money on and maintain.
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  #33  
Old 10-04-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willin' View Post
I remember my first boat purchase, an aged wooden H28 ketch. Seller wanted $7K. After diving on it and taking a test sail I offered $5k thinking it would take another $5K to get it to where I would be comfy/ proud to sail her (that's 100% to make it seaworthy, but what the hey, I like LFH's designs).

After the test sail, my wife went ashore and babysat the seller's young son while we dickered. We reached an accord and ran to the bank to close the deal before COB, then wifey and I went back to consummate the boat purchase on board.

Afterward, she said to me the kid had told her that the seller's wife told him not to come home if he hadn't sold the boat.

I gently asked her if she didn't think that would have been a good thing to tell me "before we closed the freakin' deal"?

I could have had that boat for $50 had I known.

Moral... If it's not your dream boat, you are in control. Go low and be prepared to walk away if you can't come to terms... and leave the wife at home.
you could have but that would be stealing. You paid a fair price and will have a fine boat you can enjoy for years then sell it likely for a good price and move on
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  #34  
Old 10-05-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
A 25 with an outboard is a lot of fun.
A 27 with an outboard is going to be way under-powered.
With an inboard you have a big boat feel.
Not necessarily. Before we bought our boat, we sailed our sailing co-ops C27s regularly. A Yamaha 9.9 outboard pushed them along quite nicely.
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  #35  
Old 10-05-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

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Originally Posted by sailjunkie View Post
Not necessarily. Before we bought our boat, we sailed our sailing co-ops C27s regularly. A Yamaha 9.9 outboard pushed them along quite nicely.
I own a 9.9 merc high thrust exlong that would be ideal. That motor is powerful
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  #36  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

If anyone still cares, lol...here's the update on the "mint" 27 ft Catalina I saw yesterday.

Mint maybe a strong word but It's exceptional. The owner was a boat freak, he had every do-dad from winch covers, to two bilge pumps and just about anything you could order from Catalina direct. Window shades for the inside, I could go on for ever about the $$$ in accessories you hardly see on boats and some stuff he had two of, one stored and one in use.

New diesel engine in 2005, 4 new deep cell batteries, complete bottom job in 2008, all new sails in 2010, new bimini tops in 2011 (there are two so the whole cockpit can be covered), all new lines/sheets, in 2012, everything cushion reupholstered in early 2013 for a grand total of $22k in slips presented in a nicely package in a book. Oh, did I say a custom made traveler above the hatch way and all new self-tailing winches....

The boat is $10,000 firm-

We took the boat out and sailed for three hours and my thoughts, the boat may be to big for me being a newbie and probably single handed sailing 85% of the time.

I need to give this serious thought and this experience may push me back to a Catalina 25, which feels way smaller and more manageable at least for now. I'm scared I could regret it and pine for the extra room and size if I ever find a lady friend, lol...
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  #37  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by azguy View Post
I need to give this serious thought and this experience may push me back to a Catalina 25, which feels way smaller and more manageable at least for now. I'm scared I could regret it and pine for the extra room and size if I ever find a lady friend, lol...
If you can afford it and it is a good as you say the size fear will go away in about a week.

So if you keep the boat for 5 years you are trading in one weeks discomfort for 259 weeks discomfort.
An I had a C25 for one summer and loved it.

There are many many reason why at c27 may not be the boat for you.
Being too big to single hand is not one of them.

Yes you will need a mate for the first dozen sails or so but you should probably have a helper for the 25 anyway.

The 27 you can stand up in.
That alone is worth a couple days discomfort until you get the hang of it.

I sailed a c30 single hand for a couple years then chartered a 34. Wow did that look big. By the second day it felt right. When I got back to the 30 it seemed tiny.

Like I said before.
The 25 is fun for overnight but the 27 you can go for a week.
In fact someone sailed around the world on a c27 that he significantly beefed up.

The potential value difference is significant.
If the po has 50k into a boat he wants 10k for compare that to standard issue 25 for 3k that you have to put 2k into to be usable and safe.

Of course the c27 will cost more for everything and if you can't do it you can't do it.
But don't pass because you are concerned about handling it.
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Last edited by davidpm; 10-06-2013 at 05:37 PM.
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  #38  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

What I find so ironic about this whole thread... nobody really has come out and said either boat is terrible. Testimony to Catalina knowing their market. The question has ONLY come down to which "market" is the OP... that is VERY telling about Catalina if nothing else.
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  #39  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by azguy View Post
If anyone still cares, lol...here's the update on the "mint" 27 ft Catalina I saw yesterday.

Mint maybe a strong word but It's exceptional. The owner was a boat freak, he had every do-dad from winch covers, to two bilge pumps and just about anything you could order from Catalina direct. Window shades for the inside, I could go on for ever about the $$$ in accessories you hardly see on boats and some stuff he had two of, one stored and one in use.

New diesel engine in 2005, 4 new deep cell batteries, complete bottom job in 2008, all new sails in 2010, new bimini tops in 2011 (there are two so the whole cockpit can be covered), all new lines/sheets, in 2012, everything cushion reupholstered in early 2013 for a grand total of $22k in slips presented in a nicely package in a book. Oh, did I say a custom made traveler above the hatch way and all new self-tailing winches....

The boat is $10,000 firm-

We took the boat out and sailed for three hours and my thoughts, the boat may be to big for me being a newbie and probably single handed sailing 85% of the time.

I need to give this serious thought and this experience may push me back to a Catalina 25, which feels way smaller and more manageable at least for now. I'm scared I could regret it and pine for the extra room and size if I ever find a lady friend, lol...
Let me make a bold suggestion here.

People always make extraordinary claims about how many great boats are out there to be had for peanuts - $3000, $2000, free. FWIW, I think most of it is hogwash. Boats under $10000 almost always need a lot of work to get them into the kind of shape that someone can be really proud of (and confident in, since your life may depend on that boat). This is true of all brands, including Catalina. (It can be argued that this is especially true of Catalina, since there are so many that have been out there a very long time.)

If you've found a boat for $10,000 that's truly in great shape (as you've described with this boat), go get it and don't look back. You could spend a year finding a boat for a few thousand less, and end up having to pay another $5000 for unpleasant surprises.

Be realistic. This guy loves his boat. He's used his boat recently (as opposed to most boats that have sat neglected for several years before the owners got around to selling.) The fact that he was able to take you out in it right away means it is in sail away condition. Sail-away condition means you'll spend your first season sailing, instead of working on a boat endlessly before you have any joy.

Unless you REALLY think you want a significantly different boat (much smaller or much larger), you should go for it.

I can virtually guarantee you won't find a C30 in sail-away condition for $10,000 or less. When I was looking 4 years ago, I found some C30s on Craigslist for $15,000-$20,000, and they were all moldy wrecks. (Of course, their owners claimed they were in turnkey condition.)
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Last edited by TakeFive; 10-06-2013 at 10:14 PM.
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  #40  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: I Think I Found The Right Boat

Also, here is our take on big vs small. We sail both a 32' Bene 323 as well as our M25 on the lake. We love them both but we both feel the 32 is easier to sail, motor, dock etc. I can balance it much easier etc. The smaller boat takes more care. I am sometimes surprised that folks talk about bigger being harder, when our experience is so opposite. The most work I have had sailing has been on small dinks or other fast unstable boats. Of course with a big boat in a marina you can really do some serious damage when things turn crazy.

Now, I think you learn a great deal on the smaller boats, but that is maybe a different issue.

If I could have found a Cat27 in AK for 10K in great condition I would have broken the sound barrier writing the check. Good luck. I can say that our boat we bought this summer has been the best thing we have ever done.
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