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post #1 of 39 Old 10-02-2013 Thread Starter
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insurance surveys

This survey requirement stuff to renew my boat insurance is just such a rip off! The cost of this is 1/2 the cost of what the insurance costs each years.

On the face of it it sound reasonable to get your boat checked for safety. But having to pay someone else to do so it just crazy! And my house never has been inspected and is insured (cost less for the insurance to insure somethng more expense).

I do all my own boat work and can inspect though hull fittings, valves, hoses etc. just fine without payng someone to do it. And we all know that a surveyor doesn't really dig all that deep into a boat and that a "clean" survey means nothing.

On top of that the insurance company will go along with anything that is on the report that costs the owner money. If the report says the boat needs a bug zapper as a "best practice" the underwritten will require you to get one.

So why cannt:

1 - The insurance company come up with a self inspection form?

2- I bet the major insurance companys have lots of boats in the general boating areas, so why don't they have their own inspector in the area if it is so important to them, car companies have these.

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
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post #2 of 39 Old 10-02-2013
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Re: insurance surveys

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This survey requirement stuff to renew my boat insurance is just such a rip off! The cost of this is 1/2 the cost of what the insurance costs each years.

So why cannt:

1 - The insurance company come up with a self inspection form?

Because this is what some owners think of as safe:





and this is another owners idea of safe:




Usually the stuff I am called on to fix from insurance surveys is fully justifiable.
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post #3 of 39 Old 10-02-2013
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Re: insurance surveys

Is this your first survey? Given your join date, I'm guessing this isn't your first boat. Is this for a new-to-you boat, or your current boat? How would the insurance company know what a "reasonable" amount of insurance is without having a neutral third party step in and look it over? For example, if I wanted and was willing to pay for $50,000 of insurance for my boat (1980 Allmand 31, typical selling prices are between $15000-$25000), should they write that policy just because I'm willing to pay? What if a hurricane hits the NE again this year and wipes out my boat shortly after I got the policy?

I'm "frugal", but even I don't think a survey is unreasonable, and the cost, compared to the insured value of the boat (rather than the cost of the insurance) is typically relatively low - on the order of 10% or so, and sometimes less. Plus you'll have someone with skills and certifications looking everything over and helping you find issues that you may have missed, hopefully before they become big issues.

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post #4 of 39 Old 10-02-2013
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Re: insurance surveys

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Because this is what some owners think of as safe:





and this is another owners idea of safe:




Usually the stuff I am called on to fix from insurance surveys is fully justifiable.
So, really - neither is safe, the batteries are not strapped down, nor are the terminal's covered - and that's just a start.

I'd love to see an insurance company with it's own surveyor's - or at least pay for the inspections they mandate. Of course then the cost of insurance would sky rocket.

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post #5 of 39 Old 10-02-2013
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Re: insurance surveys

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Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
So, really - neither is safe, the batteries are not strapped down, nor are the terminal's covered - and that's just a start.

I'd love to see an insurance company with it's own surveyor's - or at least pay for the inspections they mandate. Of course then the cost of insurance would sky rocket.
Actually the bottom pic meets the ABYC safety standards when the lids are on. They were only off for the picture. When the covers are on the battery box they are hard bolted to the vessel and the fasterners can not come in contact with spilled electrolyte as they are outside the case not in it..

The lids physically thread into place, molded in threaded inserts in cases, and the boxes are specifically built to hold GC2 6V batteries without straps. They are quite robust and probably why the company that made them no longer does. Little profit margin and only a few buyers looking for boxes that good and willing to pony up....

When batteries are in their own compartment, as these are, there is no need for additional terminal covers unless you want to do so on your own. I prefer to use "stubby" wrenches when working on batteries.

That bank is also fused, ANL, and the temp sensors are properly located on the neg terminal of the banks not the positives as is so often seen.

ABYC E-10 Storage Batteries

10.7.7

To prevent accidental contact of the ungrounded battery connection to ground, each battery shall be protected so that metallic objects cannot come into contact with the ungrounded battery terminal and uninsulated cell straps. This may be accomplished by means such as:

10.7.7.1 covering the ungrounded battery terminal with a boot or non-conductive shield, or

10.7.7.2 installing the battery in a covered battery box, or

10.7.7.3 installing the battery in a compartment specially designed only for the battery(s).

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 10-02-2013 at 10:43 AM.
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post #6 of 39 Old 10-02-2013
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Re: insurance surveys

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Actually the bottom pic meets ABYC standards when the lids are on..

When batteries are in their own compartment, as these are, there is no need for additional terminal covers unless you want to do so..
Cool, makes me willing to show mine which are exactly (I swear) as you describe. I can't fit lids under the sole but I have terminal caps on.
Someday

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Re: insurance surveys

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Cool, makes me willing to show mine which are exactly (I swear) as you describe. I can't fit lids under the sole but I have terminal caps on.
Someday
A lot of people don't understand that when batteries are in their own dedicated compartment or box there is no need, under the current safety standards, for additional terminal protection for the ungrounded/positive conductor. On batteries in dedicated boxes or compartments I prefer not to use additional terminal covers as owners check for corrosion less often when the terminals are out of sight and out of mind. When working on batteries some stubby wrenches, that can't physically reach between terminals, or wrenches covered in electrical tape work wonders...
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post #8 of 39 Old 10-02-2013
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Re: insurance surveys

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
The lids physically thread into place, molded in threaded inserts in cases, and the boxes are specifically built to hold GC2 6V batteries without straps. They are quite robust and probably why the company that made them no longer does. Little profit margin and only a few buyers looking for boxes that good and willing to pony up....
Damn ... I was going to ask for the source for those boxes. They look far better than most of the ones I've seen on the market.

BTW chucklesR, I agree with your comment about insurance companies paying for the surveys. We come to the company seeking a service (insurance). To price the service they need to determine the risk, so it's a question they need to answer. If they determine a survey is needed to answer the question, then they should arrange and pay for it.

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post #9 of 39 Old 10-02-2013
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Re: insurance surveys

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Damn ... I was going to ask for the source for those boxes. They look far better than most of the ones I've seen on the market.
Blue Sea was the source but they dropped them, likely due to lack of sales. They were made for Blue Sea by Bonar Plastics and the two GC2 box is the #4021. Since Blue Sea dropped them it has been very tough to find them reliably...

Redden Marine had some but I would call before ordering. The shipping on these boxes is also a killer.... For a bank of four GC2's the cost of the battery boxes often exceeded the cost of the batteries...

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post #10 of 39 Old 10-02-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: insurance surveys

So I pushed back to the insurance company about having to get a new survey. Now they say that since I had a full survey when I bought the boat that I can do a self survey and they send me a form to complete to do it!

Never hurts to ask as this is $450 that stays in my pocket!

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
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