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  #71  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Well based on some recent sentences handed out by the courts in St Vincent these 15 year olds will not be sent back to mommy.

Jail time is a virtual certainty and corporal punishment highly likely.

This a message from Tina, who is one brave lady inviting people to a meeting.

Quote:
Tina here, from S/V Rainbow. With this last thursday's attack on Mark and I on Union Island. I have been in contact w/ numerous cruisers, government officals, Rescue 1 and many other mover's and shaker's in the cruising community. This thursday at The Victory Restaurant and Bar in Port Louis Marina @ 4:30 promp till 6:30. Ule, the owner of the Victory R&B is providing nibbles and offering all well rum drinks @ $5EC. I would like to invite all of those interested in creating and implementing procedures for safer anchorages and fine tuning communications between fellow cruisers. There are many resources we can utilize and expand to make our love of our lifestyle safer in the future. This meeting is to resolve issues, not dwell on past. Please come with positive energies and ideas. Look forward to seeing and meeting you all~~ Peace, love and sandy toes.
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  #72  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Very good news. It sounded like a horrific injury. I'm glad they are doing well.
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  #73  
Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericb760 View Post
I hope that I never get so charmed by sailing that I convince myself that I no longer require the tools to protect myself and my family from situations such as this...Bad things do, indeed, happen to good people, and some people here advocate bug spray to counter this type of threat? I can't stop shaking my head and laughing.
I have read much on the web since this happened RE; wasp spray and it's use and legalities in the US.
The only case I can find where wasp spray was used(repeated in several articles, but hey, this is the web, right?) is of someone accosted in his truck and used wasp spray. He was arrested the next day (not likely outside the US), but apparently it instantly sent his attacker to the ground in severe pain. I have no way to get bear repellant sent to the Caribbean (I doubt it can be mailed internationally) but wasp spray IS available in any hardware store.
Until I hear differently, I will consider it viable as a defensive weapon and you can continue "shaking my head and laughing" until you come up with a better option. Hey, how about you spray yourself in the face and let us know the results, ericb760, if you are still laughing, that is.
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  #74  
Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Well, as a moderator here, I want to first congratulate everyone on keeping this out of the sewer thus far. I cannot remember a single other thread that has lasted this long in the open. It is a good discussion, so let's just all make sure it doesn't turn into a name calling bit or gun's thread.

I do want to share one real life experience here. Let me ask: Has anyone here actually used Mace/Pepper Spray in their boat?

My story:

We had a house built many years ago and the installer did not put in the strike plate correctly on the front door. SO, unless the door was slammed, it would not latch and a wind could push it open. That is what happened one day. The alarm went off and the police came out. They saw the door open and went in, assuming a robbery was underway.

Well, as it would so happen, I had a vicious attack dog (not really, she was a min Schnauzer that thought she was a Pit bull). She is pictured here -



She went after one of the officer's ankles. He sprayed mace or pepper spray (I have no idea what the difference is). About five minutes later, I arrived and pulled into the back drive. I opened the back door and my dog shout out of it like a cannon. I walked into the back door (not the front) and felt like I was on fire. It is a very weird feeling: It is hard hard to breathe, my eyes were watering badly, and my skin feel like it was on fire or being stung by millions of needles. I quickly got out of there and the officers came around to the back to meet me (around the outside of the house, not through the inside). They could not stay in there either and they explained what happened (Myra, our dog, did not mess with them anymore, btw).

So, what is my point? First, that stuff is quite potent. The lower floor of this house was easily over 2500 sf, and many minutes later, I could not stay in there nor the police officers. So I suspect the stuff would work on an intruder, but my issue would be how well it worked on the victims too? So that same scenario, in a sailboat, much more concentrated, might just have you (the victim) out there with the machete wielding attacker too before long.

So my question would be is that a practical solution for a boat? I suspect many of you would tell me that if it came between the mace and going outside with the intruders, you will stick with the mace. But I am telling you, it feels like you are on fire and it doesn't wipe off. I wonder what the cabin of that boat would feel like after a minute or two? Could you really stay below?

I am not telling any of you what to use or what not to use. I am simply relaying a real life experience and wondering how that would (in real life) work on a sailboat?

One of the things we do is we light up our boat. I mean we really light up our boat. I bought these LED lights from Amazon (this is them:
Amazon.com: SUPERNIGHT (TM) 16.4ft 5M SMD 5050 Blue Waterproof Led Flexible Flash Strip 300 Leds LED Light Strip 60Leds/M Multifunctional: Everything Else Amazon.com: SUPERNIGHT (TM) 16.4ft 5M SMD 5050 Blue Waterproof Led Flexible Flash Strip 300 Leds LED Light Strip 60Leds/M Multifunctional: Everything Else


) that are on a string and wrapped them on a piece of PVC. They use a total of 2 amps but are seriously bright. I suspect that if I leave them on too much longer, they will put me on a navigation map. I don't necessarily do this to distract the robbers per se, but I suspect that if the robbers have two different targets, one that is dark and one that sticks out like Ohare's runways, they will go for the dark boat. Plus, it sure makes it easier for the 2am drunk sailors going through the anchorage at a full plane on their outboard to see me versus the other boats. And the latter IS a common occurrence... too common.

Just some thoughts.

Brian
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  #75  
Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
. So I suspect the stuff would work on an intruder, but my issue would be how well it worked on the victims too?


So my question would be is that a practical solution for a boat? Brian
Good point.
A sailor needs to use the wind and its a good advantage to have on a sailboat at anchor.

The bow points into the wind, air comes down the forward hatches and out the companionway.

If someone is in the cockpit squirting with gas will go into the cockpit not back into the boat.


Security hatch you can squirt through.

The cylinder you see below here is a gas. Its secured by velcro to the companionway ready to squirt out, downwind.

This gas would fill the cockpit making it untenable to stay there.




Above: The Gang Warefare size Tear Gas in a gell form so it can be sprayed into the wind. The gell was invented for use in nightclubs where Security people can squirt one person but not everyone else. Its range is quite large and would get to the stern of the boat from the secure position locked inside



Above: This small cylinder is in the bedroom and is to squirt upwards through the hatch above into the wind... so its gell..

A sailor must use their brain and when filling the boat with gas (and secured their boat) then have rehearsed their move forward to the most forward compartment (mine is the forward head) where clean air can come in, and there is water and a shower to rinse the stuff out of the eyes, nose and off the skin.

So these thiings need to be thought out, bought properly and planned and rehearsed in their use.

There is one other advantage: Surprise. You know what you have squirted into the face of an attacker. You sill have the power to secure your boat with eyes mostly shut as you know it, he doesn't. You can use your radio with eyes closed. Also you know its tempory, he doesnt.


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  #76  
Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
My take is that if you are below when boarded by an armed attacker - you're pretty much screwed. There are just too many options open to the attacker and too few opened to you (essentially the caged prey). It's too one-sided a battle...especially if you don't have a firearm.

At that point, all you can do is be that short, skinny, crazy guy from Appalachia and just go berserk with your winch handle. People around the world, armed or not, fear that kind of guy.
The man who is defending his family is a very dangerous man. I'd put my money on the guy with the winch handle. Lots of stuff on boats for a deperate man. But if you just think they are taking a few cheap things, you act calm. Thats the lesson here. Those guys probably cut his wife sneaky without any warning and if Mark had known what they really meant to do, there would be a much different story. He would have torn them apart before they had a chance. You can hold someone off - just swing away. Its the sneak attack you can't defend.

I mainly just wanted to express my concern and sympathy for Christina and Mark and to enquire about Chrstina's condition. Reading the posts I could imagine myself defending us with just about anything imaginable, an axe, a gaffe, a bat, anything and everything I could grab, but I suspect they acted casual and took the cheap shot and swung at her.

Any news on how they are ?
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  #77  
Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Seems like a one off attack, not a trend. They used what ever weapon they could scrounge up quickly to successfully defend themselves. Nobody died. I don't think firearms could have provided a better outcome. My congratulations to the couple, hope I could react half as well to this situation. They have my admiration.
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  #78  
Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericb760 View Post
I hope that I never get so charmed by sailing that I convince myself that I no longer require the tools to protect myself and my family from situations such as this...Bad things do, indeed, happen to good people, and some people here advocate bug spray to counter this type of threat? I can't stop shaking my head and laughing.
Interesting, and so very misguided.

You should read the QUOTE FROM THE ACTUAL WOMAN ATTACKED two posts above yours. I think her response and solution is far far far better than yours (which seems to be to arm myself and blow people away).
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  #79  
Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

One of the scariest parts of all this is this.... who among us WOULDN'T, as a matter of routine, pop their head out of the companionway upon hearing an unusual noise on deck?

Certainly my first thought is (was???? ) not going to be about a machete-wielding nutcase. Given that, there's really no defence against such an attack, even amongst those of you who travel armed.. realistically how often are you going to take the time to dig out that carefully hidden weapon before having a look-see?

Mark did well to repel the attacker as he did, keep his cool (presumably) and get the best medical help they could under the circumstances. I suspect he'd be in a wee bit more trouble in SVG had he shot and killed the kid, though the local public support and outcry would probably help..
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Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

OMG that is a huuge wound!!! That poor woman. As I suspected, no warning just boarded and then attacked her. The article says Mark stabbed the attacker and that Mark was being hailed as a hero in the local community.

Kitchen knife beats machete.
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