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  #81  
Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
I do believe that in general, "cruisers" need a reality check on the nobility of sailing the world as a tourist, and the real life impact and reality of what it all means.
So says one who's likely learned most about what he knows about "cruising" from reading an internet sailing forum?

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Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Maybe you can explain the difference between arriving at (insert carrib island here) by S/V, as opposed to arriving by plane?
If you can't imagine or appreciate the distinction between arriving in a place like St George's on a small sailing yacht, as opposed to aboard a cruise ship or airliner, well... there's no point in attempting to explain it to you...

The Dark & Stormies at the White Horse are definitely more savory, for starters... :-)


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Last edited by JonEisberg; 10-09-2013 at 12:38 AM.
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

There are generally two kinds of intruders.

Those that will scare away, when they learn you are aboard.

Those that won't.

The latter is the minority, but are the ones where you better be prepared to defend your life. They will assume they are defending theirs, as they do not know what you are capable of either.

I've missed how these intruders were ultimately chased away? Makes me wonder if they were caught by surprise, swung the machete then ran? I did read the victim's post that she felt they were intent on harm, but I don't recall how they ran them off.

As for pepper type sprays, I don't believe you can buy products as potent as those used by law enforcement in the US. I could be wrong about that.
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  #83  
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
There are generally two kinds of intruders.

Those that will scare away, when they learn you are aboard.

Those that won't.

The latter is the minority, but are the ones where you better be prepared to defend your life. They will assume they are defending theirs, as they do not know what you are capable of either.
And perhaps a third kind: the "amateur", inexperienced armed thief that panics when he unexpectedly finds you aboard and shoots (or swings a machete). These are the ones that worry me. I wonder if this wasn't the case with the 15 year old in question.
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  #84  
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Lol, and I'm sure you leave this kind of judgmental smarm at the dock here in the states, before departing, correct? Only the locals in far flung locales get the "real" you.. right? (-:
Anyone who has traveled abroad, or who has observed foreign visitors in their own country, has on occasion witnessed tourists/visitors behaving badly, reflecting poorly on their homeland, and spoiling things for other visitors following in their wake... And yet, to be "judgmental" about such behavior like that of the Fetchers, is to somehow make ME the Ugly American in such an instance?

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Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post

Anyway, who really cares (again, it's not like you're doing anything other than self serving tourism). Best of luck with it all Jon, you're doing great work out there.. pat yourself on the back for a job... done.
I should have known, I suppose, it would be too much to expect you to point to something actually posted in this thread that suggests anyone is claiming some sort of higher purpose or superiority to what they're doing out there as cruisers, or anything akin to the "great work" you're mocking. I pointed out that some cruisers do become involved in helping out locals from time to time, only in response to your ignorant assertion that such things cannot possibly occur... But again, where has anyone suggested that that they should be 'congratulated' for simply sailing and cruising for pleasure and contentment, and the simple rewards and self-enrichment that comes from sailing to new places, and meeting new people?

Last edited by JonEisberg; 10-09-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
One of the scariest parts of all this is this.... who among us WOULDN'T, as a matter of routine, pop their head out of the companionway upon hearing an unusual noise on deck?
There's a very simple solution that might have averted that kind of exposure to this attack... A cockpit light hung from the backstay or topping lift... I'm always surprised the use of these isn't more widespread, especially in places where security is a concern...

One of the downsides of a bimini or full awning, makes it a bit more difficult to illuminate the cockpit from above...

One of my absolute favorite bits of gear, is my LED anchor/cockpit combo from Bebi Electronics... Incredibly bright white all around anchor light, with a warmer downward facing array that lights up the cockpit and surrounding deck with a pleasing light bright enough to read by, and certainly bright enough to light up any intruder...

Sadly, Bebi has closed up their shop, due to the political situation in Fiji... Hotwire was a distributor in the States, perhaps they still have some in stock. But in any event, configuring some form of low amperage cockpit illumination is pretty simple...





Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: Bebi LEDs, from Fiji yet


I'm really curious to know what sort of boat RAINBOW was, no one seems to know... The only thing I've heard was from a friend who thought it was in the range of 35' or thereabouts, so not particularly large...

As one who sails a smaller boat, I have a hard time picturing how someone of any size could board my boat without my noticing, as long as I was awake, and my lifeline gates had been closed (always a good practice in any sketchy area)

I can't help but wonder if RAINBOW might have had a sugar scoop transom, which of course virtually presents an open invitation to someone looking to climb aboard undetected...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 10-09-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

I think it is interesting that the divisions on this thread are between those who are cruising or who intend to cruise and those with no intention to sail beyond their tiny part of the US.
The second group seem to blame the victims in this case for being somewhere that is outside the states and therefore a very dangerous place (which Union Island is not), or for being the "ugly Americans".
Safety in the US is not what so many on here seem to think it is. Columbine, Sandy Hook, Aurora movie theater shootings and 9/11 all belie that fallacy.
I feel no need to justify my desire to be out here cruising and frankly do not care what those who are too afraid to leave their feather beds think, but blaming any victim of a crime such as those mentioned above or the incident at Frigate Island anchorage is ludicrous.
This thread has gone from an informational bit about a horrible incident to judgement, laying blame and criticism.
This particular incident, from the facts given by the victims, Mark and Tina, was not preventable. Had it not happened at the Frigate Island anchorage, it probably would have happened at another one, or even another island. These monsters had a boat and there are 4 islands within several miles of that anchorage.
No defensive weapons would have prevented the first hack with the machete, no guns, no knives, no spray. Nobody who goes cruising wishes to lock themselves into their boat with security bars 24/7, unlike many of you who live in houses.
If you are not a cruiser or intend to be one, then you can not understand what motivates those that are. You should not judge them or think them irresponsible for choosing to live a different lifestyle, any more than they should consider you to be unadventurous and boring.
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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I think it is interesting that the divisions on this thread are between those who are cruising or who intend to cruise and those with no intention to sail beyond their tiny part of the US.
The second group seem to blame the victims in this case for being somewhere that is outside the states and therefore a very dangerous place (which Union Island is not), or for being the "ugly Americans".
Safety in the US is not what so many on here seem to think it is. Columbine, Sandy Hook, Aurora movie theater shootings and 9/11 all belie that fallacy.
I feel no need to justify my desire to be out here cruising and frankly do not care what those who are too afraid to leave their feather beds think, but blaming any victim of a crime such as those mentioned above or the incident at Frigate Island anchorage is ludicrous.
This thread has gone from an informational bit about a horrible incident to judgement, laying blame and criticism.

This particular incident, from the facts given by the victims, Mark and Tina, was not preventable. Had it not happened at the Frigate Island anchorage, it probably would have happened at another one, or even another island. These monsters had a boat and there are 4 islands within several miles of that anchorage.
No defensive weapons would have prevented the first hack with the machete, no guns, no knives, no spray. Nobody who goes cruising wishes to lock themselves into their boat with security bars 24/7, unlike many of you who live in houses.
If you are not a cruiser or intend to be one, then you can not understand what motivates those that are. You should not judge them or think them irresponsible for choosing to live a different lifestyle, any more than they should consider you to be unadventurous and boring.
Sorry, I but think you are misreading much of what has been posted here...

Certainly, there are differing opinions on how best to view the risks of such an attack, but I'm sure not seeing anyone "blaming the victim", here...

If anything, there seems to be pretty unanimous admiration for the manner in which Tina and Mark dealt with the situation, and nothing but good thoughts for their recovery...
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Sorry, I but think you are misreading much of what has been posted here...

Certainly, there are differing opinions on how best to view the risks of such an attack, but I'm sure not seeing anyone "blaming the victim", here...

If anything, there seems to be pretty unanimous admiration for the manner in which Tina and Mark dealt with the situation, and nothing but good thoughts for their recovery...
Agreed.. I don't see that 'blame the victim' prominent here.. particularly in this case. General statements that some behaviours might increase the odds of incidents, but certainly Mark and Tina don't appear to have been in that category.
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Seems no one knows what ultimately got the intruders off the boat. Bet that would be very informative.
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Seems no one knows what ultimately got the intruders off the boat. Bet that would be very informative.
Well, apparently, her husband managed to stab one of them after she was hacked in the face. I'm sure that contributed to at least that particular attacker's decision to leave the boat
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