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  #21  
Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Miami to Bimini

Quote:
Originally Posted by asanchis92 View Post
I see many of the concerns are sailing with northernly winds. I understand that wind against the current creates waves, but the forecasts all show less less than 2 feet of wave height and since I'll be sailing in a ESE direction to beat the stream it'll be more or less a beam reach.

Are the waves really that bad or is there something else?
Just curious about your weather sources? Passage Weather is showing wave heights of 2 meters from the NE for Friday into Saturday. Down to 1 meter by 12 UTC on Saturday. Consider that you will probably see more than forecast. I don't see any source calling for waves of 2' or less. It's Tuesday, and we are in Brunswick, Georgia. The wind is blowing stink out of the NE already. After a few days of north winds, it takes time for the Atlantic to settle down. Just don't get your hopes up too high right now. It looks a bit iffy IMO.

From Marine Forecast/Weather Underground-
Gulf Stream Hazards

Seas could build to 6 feet in the Gulf Stream waters of Palm Beach County by Friday. The approximate location of the west wall of the Gulf Stream as of Oct 08, 2013 at 1200 UTC... 7 nautical miles east northeast of Fowey Rocks. 16 nautical miles east of Port Everglades. 14 nautical miles south southeast of Lake Worth. 11 nautical miles north northeast of Jupiter Inlet. This data courtesy of the naval oceanographic office.


Hey, you can always head out and turn back if you don't like what you see. We've all done that, haven't we?

Ralph
Bimini at last! | sailing away with R & B
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Last edited by RTB; 10-08-2013 at 05:38 PM.
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  #22  
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Re: Miami to Bimini

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Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
Quote "Your prescription makes no sense and would have one's track over the ground equivalent to sailing along the hypotenuse of a triangle and then down the vertical leg" That is true and correct. It makes sense when you apply VMG vector charts
This is from both my experience and the Explorer Charts preface in crossing the Gulf Stream at 90 degrees. My first time I did a set and drift and it took me over 14 hours from No Name Harbor. Subsequent crossing I average around 9-10 hours. I agree sail south of the rhumb line until you get into the Gulf Stream usually around 5-8 miles of shore in the Miami and Bimini area. You cannot beat a 3-4 knot current and get any VMG (velocity made good) by set and drift going around 5-6 knots boat speed. Furthermore, you do not want to spend any more time in the Gulf Stream than you have to due current and most important the short choppy waves that normally prevail. It is not called a "Dirty Patch of Water" for nothing.
The Gulf Stream(GS) is around 43 miles wide here in the Miami area. Average boat speed say is 6 knots for this discussion. Rhumb line is 47 NM. The average time in the GS 7 hours straight line. 7 hours in the GS will equate to around 14 NM up stream (north) using 2 knot average. Depending on where you start your trip will depend far north you will be of Bimini. So let say worst case you are 14 NM north of Alice Town that is around 2:15 + 7 = 9.15 hours total trip time.
If you set and drift your VMG will only be around 2.5-3.5 knots depending on the GS current strength. (38-50 degrees X-track). Simply math says it will take around 16 hours (average 3kts). Sixteen hours in the GS.. Not good.
The prevailing winds here are from the East. So sailing to Bimini unless you want to take 24 hours tacking into the Gulf Stream is not doable. Like I said the heading to Bimini is around 110 degrees. So this makes it a motorsail at best. Every time I hold this course I end up at the north end of Bimini island. 45 -60 minutes later I am in Alice Town.


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I'm on the same page here. We left No Name Harbor on May 1 this year. It took us 13 hours, from anchor up to tie up at Brown's. The RLC is 101* from Miami. For our boat, 5 knots for planning, the corrected course was 132* to Bimini. I couldn't come close to that course. The result was a speed of close to 2 knots. I had to steer about 110* to keep any speed, and we ended up 9NM north of Bimini. This was our first crossing, and it probably would have been quicker if I had figured things out sooner, rather than trying to buck the stream.

On the flip side, our return trip - Bimini to Lake Worth, we averaged more than 8 knots. It took us less time to cover 75 miles, than the trip over, which was 42 miles.

Ralph
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Old 10-08-2013
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Re: Miami to Bimini

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Originally Posted by azguy View Post
I know nothing and I'm newer than new
You could have stopped right there.
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Re: Miami to Bimini

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Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
You could have stopped right there.
He did say "someone leaving on FRIDAY". We NEVER LEAVE ON FRIDAY!

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Old 10-11-2013
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Re: Miami to Bimini

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Originally Posted by asanchis92 View Post

We plan to leave this Friday night to make it to Bimini during day
I was wondering if you made the run for Bimini today, Alvaro? Or, are you leaving tonight?
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Old 10-11-2013
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Re: Miami to Bimini

So much theory and so little seamanship!

In a 10 hour trip to Bimini you have to overcome 25 miles of northing due to the Stream and theoretically is is irreverent how you make the southing to correct. However, practically it is very important.

You can either bash into the Stream , make your southing on the Bimini side or you can show some seamanship.

Instead of sitting in Lauderdale or No Name Harbor waiting for a window you can make your way south down Biscayne Bay or Hawke's Channel to Angelfish Creek or even Marathon making 5-6 knots.

When the Stream is favorable you will then have a lovely sail to Bimini with the Stream and the waves in your favor.

We have done this for the last 30 years.

Last edited by Yorksailor; 10-11-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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Re: Miami to Bimini

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Originally Posted by Yorksailor View Post
So much theory and so little seamanship!

In a 10 hour trip to Bimini you have to overcome 25 miles of northing due to the Stream and theoretically is is irreverent how you make the southing to correct. However, practically it is very important.

You can either bash into the Stream , make your southing on the Bimini side or you can show some seamanship.

Instead of sitting in Lauderdale or No Name Harbor waiting for a window you can make your way south down Biscayne Bay or Hawke's Channel to Angelfish Creek or even Marathon making 5-6 knots.

When the Stream is favorable you will then have a lovely sail to Bimini with the Stream and the waves in your favor.

We have done this for the last 30 years.
Damn good advice
Definitely thats the best way to get to Bimini !!!!! Ride the GS instead of fighting it. When going to Bimini, I typically anchor/wait at Rodriguez Key for my jump-off spot.
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  #28  
Old 10-11-2013
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Re: Miami to Bimini

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
Quote "Your prescription makes no sense and would have one's track over the ground equivalent to sailing along the hypotenuse of a triangle and then down the vertical leg" That is true and correct. It makes sense when you apply VMG vector charts
This is from both my experience and the Explorer Charts preface in crossing the Gulf Stream at 90 degrees. My first time I did a set and drift and it took me over 14 hours from No Name Harbor. Subsequent crossing I average around 9-10 hours. I agree sail south of the rhumb line until you get into the Gulf Stream usually around 5-8 miles of shore in the Miami and Bimini area. You cannot beat a 3-4 knot current and get any VMG (velocity made good) by set and drift going around 5-6 knots boat speed. Furthermore, you do not want to spend any more time in the Gulf Stream than you have to due current and most important the short choppy waves that normally prevail. It is not called a "Dirty Patch of Water" for nothing.
The Gulf Stream(GS) is around 43 miles wide here in the Miami area. Average boat speed say is 6 knots for this discussion. Rhumb line is 47 NM. The average time in the GS 7 hours straight line. 7 hours in the GS will equate to around 14 NM up stream (north) using 2 knot average. Depending on where you start your trip will depend far north you will be of Bimini. So let say worst case you are 14 NM north of Alice Town that is around 2:15 + 7 = 9.15 hours total trip time.
If you set and drift your VMG will only be around 2.5-3.5 knots depending on the GS current strength. (38-50 degrees X-track). Simply math says it will take around 16 hours (average 3kts). Sixteen hours in the GS.. Not good.
The prevailing winds here are from the East. So sailing to Bimini unless you want to take 24 hours tacking into the Gulf Stream is not doable. Like I said the heading to Bimini is around 110 degrees. So this makes it a motorsail at best. Every time I hold this course I end up at the north end of Bimini island. 45 -60 minutes later I am in Alice Town.


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Yep. The description of this method as described in the Explorer chart books should be required reading for anyone navigating across the Gulf Stream. It amounts to an S course, always maintaining a right angle to the current, not trying to fight it to some percentage as you would in a nav101 current vector course.
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Re: Miami to Bimini

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Originally Posted by Yorksailor View Post
So much theory and so little seamanship!
Maybe? If you are anchored in Miami, are you going 30 miles to Angelfish, 50 miles to Rodriguez to jump to Bimini? Even farther to Marathon. I'll be sitting in Bimini drinking a Kalik when you get there. I'm not sure if it's better seamanship to sail 100 (or more) miles Vs 42+a bit? It's a pay me now, or pay me later thing, with the Gulfstream.

I'm just kidding (a little). The fact is that a first-timer, with all the hype about the Gulfstream, is looking at that enticing shorter distance. That was my mistake too. No matter how great a weather window you have, the stream will be there. It has a greater effect than a first-timer realizes. Once across, that new guy has the experience, and will learn from it.

We'll just skip Bimini this year. There isn't much there, but won't discourage others from going there. We'll just head to Nassau to check in, or Bullock's Harbor, and check out more of the Berries. Or the Abacos.... crap! So much to see!!! We're still figuring out the Bahamas. The Gulfstream is a piece of cake.

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Last edited by RTB; 10-11-2013 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 10-12-2013
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Re: Miami to Bimini

Ralph,
Shortest route vs seamanship...

2 years ago we were in Cancun and wanted to go to St Barts which is 1,400 miles into the trades and the current. The trades were blowing hard and even our big boat struggles to make 100 nm/day over the ground when bashing into 6-8 ft waves and a knot of current...14 days of misery and lots of fuel.

Instead we took the Gulf Stream to Miami, had dinner, picked up a crew member took the Stream to the NW Providence Channel out due east well actually sailed towards Bermuda for 2 days, motored for about 36 hours out to 67W and then rode the trades south to St Barts. Total distance about 1,800 nm or 400 miles further than the direct route. However...

14 days into the Caribbean equatorial current is 24x14x1 of adverse current is minus 336 nm. 4 days in the Gulf Stream and Yucatan Current is 24x4x2 or 192 nm plus. That is over 500 miles of difference in the effect of current

Hence in practical terms it is 100 nm shorter to go via Miami a route that let us sail 12 out of 15 days, and the trip was so benign we broke $9 of equipment.

We live in Miami and when we leave the VHF on we listen to the boats in No Name Harbor talk worriedly for days about windows to cross the Stream. Once they get out there they complain of the rough ride. If they like RichH sailed down to Rodriguez Key they would have a much easier crossing and see more of the Keys.

Last edited by Yorksailor; 10-12-2013 at 08:40 AM.
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