"Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat. - Page 6 - SailNet Community

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post #51 of 73 Old 10-16-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

Then I've had friends arrive completely empty handed. Not ever water

"Next best thing to not having a boat? The knowledge from having one!" Denise, Bristol PA, On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club.
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post #52 of 73 Old 10-16-2013
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

All the better for you to be the gracious hostess.
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post #53 of 73 Old 10-16-2013
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
Denise, and others:

I shall stay away from the lifestyle-type issues (regarding which all the best), but since many seem interested, here's the text of the Coast Guard reg. which allows passengers to contibute voluntarily to voyage expenses without becoming "passengers for hire":

BoatSafe.com

the key language, which tells you what is NOT "compensation", is:

"...not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies." Additionally, employees or business clients that have not contributed for their carriage, and are carried for morale or entertainment purposes, are not considered as an exchange of consideration."

and, here's a simple explanation of what it takes to apply for, and obtain, a 6-passenger license as Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels:

http://www.edba.com/captains/USCG%20...ral%20info.pdf


I hope these take some of the mystery and wonder out of the process.

Years ago I bought a prep book for around 40 bucks, filled in my own application, got a physical, and went to a Coast Guard office and took the exam (mine was 100-ton master, so I would think the 6 pack would be simpler). Nowadays the equivalent is an online course, like this:

Mariner Advancement Ab License

for 80 bucks. the only barrier to doing this might be the scarcity of Coast Guard offices who give the test. I, living in New Orleans, am lucky in that regard. Are you lucky? This list of exam centers will tell you:

NMC Regional Examination Centers Page

If you're not "lucky", then the schools are well worth the money, since you can take the test without travelling. If however you are in a "Regional Exam Center city", then I don't see why you'd spend the bucks--if you can navigate an auxiliary sailboat, you can navigate the Coast Guard bureaucracy, which has become more user-friendly, especially for on-line applicants, and you can schedule and take your exam in person. The Only truly burdensome thing is the lengthy medical exam form (they got burned publically by the Staten Island ferry and Bay Bridge accidents where overmedicated mariners made their medical screening for licenses look frail, so they have *really* tightened up on this) you and your doc will have to navigate, but the online instructions are clear and comprehensive. Just figure on two doc appointments--one for the physical itself, and one to have Doc fill out and sign the form. But I think you'll have to do that yourself anyway, even if you go to a school.

I have run on here. But don't be scared of the process for getting licensed--if you have the sea time, and can pass the physical, then you can do it.

that's interesting. So as you answer questins they are removed from the list and you can take them over and over as long as you like. So you cant fail unless you just plain give up...opps, this is just the prep course then you gotta go take the test at a coast guard station right?

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post #54 of 73 Old 10-16-2013
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

You know if I was asked Denise's original question twenty odd years back I would have almost certainly said go for it and to hell with the naysayers. Nearly every cruiser I knew back used to take on paying crew wth no legal right to do so and no one gave a tinkers damn.

In today's insanely litigious world ? No freaking way.

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― Terry Pratchett.
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post #55 of 73 Old 10-17-2013
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

tdw hit the nail on the head about excessive litigation. There is no way I would take a "friend" out with any debate as to whether it was for profit.

I often wonder about the same issue: house or boat? I could easily rent my house to skiers when out sailing but really do not want vacationing idiots trashing the house. All I can say regarding being able to afford sailing when retired without a trust fund is that the way I make it work is by doing without things like eating out, going to the local pub, or other unnecessary expenditures, fixing my own stuff, avoiding debt like the plague, separating need from want, and planning my budget WAY out ahead.

The issue of a little extra income is a tough one. Wood boat building is a possibility I have considered but the market for custom wood boats is really non-existent in the "new economy." This, like anything done for profit, almost has to suck you into a full time business, including marketing, insurance, etc., etc., etc. ad infinitum in order for it to work. That invariably takes the joy out of it. Not only that, but anything made by hand is now made in China by people working for fifty cents an hour. I found that out building violins and guitars. There is just no way to compete as an American craftsman, another result of "globalism." Have you though about doing work on other people's boats?

I disagree with those who would recite the "you can't afford it" rhetoric. If you really want to do something, there is always a way. Best of luck with it.
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post #56 of 73 Old 10-17-2013
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
You know if I was asked Denise's original question twenty odd years back I would have almost certainly said go for it ...In today's insanely litigious world ? No freaking way.
I'd say concern about litigation risk is a valid reason in itself, but there is also real risk of civil or criminal penalties:

Coast Guard, Illinois officials crack down on illegal charter boats - Professional Mariner - Web Exclusive 2012

Note the part in the news report where the vessel has been confiscated...

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post #57 of 73 Old 10-17-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

All being said.. it's a fine line, and just having friends on the boat means liability. Friends sharing expenses could be just enough to help me keep the boat on the Chessey. I can lie about my age.. It doesn't make me younger. The hot summers and my growing intolerance for heat. The shortness of the season, the distance from the Bay. all eroded the passion I had for sailing my boat and actually using it for cruising. I know this, I will NOT be one of those old people that fixes and fixes a boat and never goes anywhere.

Where do I find written examples of fractional ownership?

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post #58 of 73 Old 10-17-2013
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

A point about friends "turning'' on you. If insurance companies get involved, they can sue without input from the injured party.
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

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Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
...
Where do I find written examples of fractional ownership?
Here is one:
https://sailtime.com/

I can't speak for other locations, but as someone who has done charter work for the Boston business, that franchise has a very first-rate program utilizing young boats that are very well-maintained.

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post #60 of 73 Old 10-17-2013
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Re: "Paying" friends wanting to go on the boat.

Back in the '70's when my boat started to pay for itself, it became obvious one had to be in or illegal. The feds were just becoming aware of the potential problems of casual chartering and set up enforceable rules for small boats. One aspect of chartering was that most of my friends couldn't to bring a flat of beer to the party let alone throw money in the kitty.That left the general public and tourists as targets for financial success.That made it commercial .Apart from the costs of running the gauntlet of bureaucracy ,just answering the phone is a full timer. Internet has become a great asset but that takes time too. So now it's about employees,accountant,webpage designers . I do all the maintenance on Thane and still get to enjoy sailing local waters. A bit limiting in coastal cruising but I built a small boat in Thailand to make up for it. So,regarding the pro/con of making a buck with a boat, it can be done and with considerable satisfaction.It can also be an expensive failure. (I hear that there were at least six boaters on Saltspring Island in court for charter day fishing) Shows it's better to do it right or stay home. For me, home is here in Lotus Land.
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