Fraud on the hook - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 71 Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Fraud on the hook

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
You know, I understand that Stockwell was just trying to help someone out. Certainly an admirable thing. And I feel sorry for the guy. But co-endorsing a check for someone you do not know EXTREMELY well is a little bit like sending your bank information to a Nigerian Prince.
I'm with you. In fact, I don't know anyone for whom I would endorse a check for nearly $3K. If a close friend needed a little cash to tide him over until his check cleared I would loan him fifty or a hundred bucks and file it away as a gift.

As friend Orvil once said: "Never, ever, go on the hook for more than you can afford to take out of your pocket and give away."


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post #32 of 71 Old 11-01-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Fraud on the hook

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Originally Posted by xort View Post
If he was American this would have been dealt with long ago. Illegal aliens are getting free passes.
BS Xort.

You are smarter than that. How would you like to be run out of the islands because you passed a bad check? It can happen.

Either way it takes someone to actually press charges - something NOT done here. You can't take legal action without a crime. ICE can not become involved without a reason either.

This incident is about a cruiser who needs to be watched so he does no further harm, not about a foreigner committing alleged crimes.

Keep the politics to the OT threads.

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post #33 of 71 Old 11-01-2013
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Re: Fraud on the hook

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ICE can not become involved without a reason either.
That is correct. But isn't overstaying a visum exactly the kind of stuff that ICE is supposed to act upon?

I would see the situation differently. If those two were not French and white but nationals of a third world country and black or hispanic, maybe the ICE would have found it necessary to intervene
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post #34 of 71 Old 11-01-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Fraud on the hook

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Originally Posted by MastUndSchotbruch View Post
That is correct. But isn't overstaying a visum exactly the kind of stuff that ICE is supposed to act upon?

I would see the situation differently. If those two were not French and white but nationals of a third world country and black or hispanic, maybe the ICE would have found it necessary to intervene
I don't see it that way.

If I wrote you a bad check it would still take you MONTHS to do a damn thing about it. Not being American does nothing to change that.
Even the sheriff in the article expresses his concern that Otts might himself be a victim.

We do not KNOW the status of his visa status. I don't work for ICE, do you?
Some law enforcement agencies are not allowed to request legal status/green card/visa doc's unless an arrest is made prior to the request.

I used to run databases for related federal agencies, it's not as simple as you think. No one is running around checking visa's folks - not even for "I think he's illegal" finger pointers - and no actual charges have been made.
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Re: Fraud on the hook

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Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
I don't see it that way.

If I wrote you a bad check it would still take you MONTHS to do a damn thing about it. Not being American does nothing to change that.
Even the sheriff in the article expresses his concern that Otts might himself be a victim.

We do not KNOW the status of his visa status. I don't work for ICE, do you?
Some law enforcement agencies are not allowed to request legal status/green card/visa doc's unless an arrest is made prior to the request.

I used to run databases for related federal agencies, it's not as simple as you think. No one is running around checking visa's folks - not even for "I think he's illegal" finger pointers - and no actual charges have been made.
Nope, I don't work for ICE. But the newspaper reports showed an immigration stamp from some time last year (September, I think) with a validity of 90 days (again, I think). So, unless they renewed the visa (which nobody claims), we DO know the status of their visa, it is expired.

And, again I am certainly no expert (don't even play one on TV), but I would think that ICE is allowed to request to see the visa status. If not there would not be much justification to even have the agency.
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post #36 of 71 Old 11-01-2013
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Re: Fraud on the hook

Did that couple actually sail that boat across the pond??
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Re: Fraud on the hook

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Originally Posted by MastUndSchotbruch View Post
Nope, I don't work for ICE. But the newspaper reports showed an immigration stamp from some time last year (September, I think) with a validity of 90 days (again, I think). So, unless they renewed the visa (which nobody claims), we DO know the status of their visa, it is expired.

And, again I am certainly no expert (don't even play one on TV), but I would think that ICE is allowed to request to see the visa status. If not there would not be much justification to even have the agency.
See, no - you don't know the CURRENT status of his visa, or if one is even required. You know what her status apparently was in May of this year.
Anything else you assume.

Besides which um, they don't expire. A tourist from France is granted a 90 visa if they apply. If they don't apply - and oh BTW - a visa is NOT required - then the common practice is to stamp the PP with a 1 year period.

Wanna guess what happens when the year is up?

IF they go to a embassy and ask it gets renewed for a year. It's a tourist visa. If they don't go to an embassy and ask, nothing happens.
Even if they are arrested.
Charges were dropped, no crime was committed from a legal point of view.

I'm not defending these guys, Heck I posted the thread!
I'm saying ya'll need to quit hollering about do this and do that when the law protects them just as much as anyone else.
Facts folks, facts.

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Re: Fraud on the hook

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Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
See, no - you don't know the CURRENT status of his visa, or if one is even required. You know what her status apparently was in May of this year.
Anything else you assume.

Besides which um, they don't expire. A tourist from France is granted a 90 visa if they apply. If they don't apply - and oh BTW - a visa is NOT required - then the common practice is to stamp the PP with a 1 year period.

Wanna guess what happens when the year is up?

IF they go to a embassy and ask it gets renewed for a year. It's a tourist visa. If they don't go to an embassy and ask, nothing happens.
Even if they are arrested.
Charges were dropped, no crime was committed from a legal point of view.

I'm not defending these guys, Heck I posted the thread!
I'm saying ya'll need to quit hollering about do this and do that when the law protects them just as much as anyone else.
Facts folks, facts.
I had a post typed up that said about the same. The only thing we know is that a check bounced. We don't know who wrote the check, and if it was forged. All we know is that that check was returned, and apparently according to the article that there are some irregularities with the check. Now of course Ott should have returned any money that he had left from the check. We don't know if he did or did not. I am confidant that the police are trying to figure this out. If it was fraud, that is no small matter and will be determined.
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post #39 of 71 Old 11-01-2013
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Re: Fraud on the hook

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Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
See, no - you don't know the CURRENT status of his visa, or if one is even required. You know what her status apparently was in May of this year.
Anything else you assume.
Yup, I _assume_ that the status is as it has been described in the local press, that they have not renewed their tourist visa, see link below. Do you have any information to the contrary?

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Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Besides which um, they don't expire. A tourist from France is granted a 90 visa if they apply. If they don't apply - and oh BTW - a visa is NOT required - then the common practice is to stamp the PP with a 1 year period.
You know, um, I have news for you: Visa do expire!

In this particular case, it expired March 13 this year: Primadonna | The Shipping News | TownDock.net, Oriental NC

More news: You are right that under some circumstances tourists from France do no need a visa since they may be allowed in the Visa Waiver program, see Non-Immigrant Visas | Embassy of the United States Paris, France. But this is only valid for stays up to 90 days. Which would have been up even earlier, December 13 2012.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Wanna guess what happens when the year is up?


IF they go to a embassy and ask it gets renewed for a year. It's a tourist visa. If they don't go to an embassy and ask, nothing happens.
Even if they are arrested.
Charges were dropped, no crime was committed from a legal point of view.
I have no idea if an immigration violation is a crime but severe cases are surely grounds for deportation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post

I'm not defending these guys, Heck I posted the thread!
I'm saying ya'll need to quit hollering about do this and do that when the law protects them just as much as anyone else.
Facts folks, facts.
I know you posted the thread. But your posting gives the impression that you consider obeying immigration laws of this country as optional.
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Re: Fraud on the hook

Mast, take your politics to OT. You don't know me from Adam.

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