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  #131  
Old 11-02-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

"Just for fun, consider some of the improbable boats that have safely made it around: Lapworth 24, Lyle Hess 24, 25-ft wood Folkboat, Vertue 25, Contessa 26, Heavenly Twins 26 cat, Albin Vega 27, Cal 2-27, Nor"sea 27, Southern Cross 28, H-28, Westsail 28, Piver 28 tri, Ericson 29, Cascade 29, Odyssey 30, Golden Gate 30, Rawson 30, Channel Cutter 30, And I know for a fact that some of these boats on this list were purchased and equipped for less than $10,000. As has often been said, money or size has never been the main obstacle to anyone doing a circumnavigation. These aren't simple ocean crossings they are full circumnavigations" Quoted
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  #132  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
"Just for fun, consider some of the improbable boats that have safely made it around: Lapworth 24, Lyle Hess 24, 25-ft wood Folkboat, Vertue 25, Contessa 26, Heavenly Twins 26 cat, Albin Vega 27, Cal 2-27, Nor"sea 27, Southern Cross 28, H-28, Westsail 28, Piver 28 tri, Ericson 29, Cascade 29, Odyssey 30, Golden Gate 30, Rawson 30, Channel Cutter 30, And I know for a fact that some of these boats on this list were purchased and equipped for less than $10,000. As has often been said, money or size has never been the main obstacle to anyone doing a circumnavigation. These aren't simple ocean crossings they are full circumnavigations" Quoted
Sure, do you know that a guy had circumnavigated non stop on a 22ft mini class racer? and that a guy had crossed the Atlantic on a small beach open cat? What has all that to do with a bigger or smaller security margin?

That is the kind of thought that is dangerous like: If a guy crossed the Atlantic on a beach cat, than it is as safe to do so and on a beach cat as on a 50ft cruising cat. Size does not matter in what regards seaworthiness and safety

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-02-2013 at 04:06 PM.
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  #133  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

So you are comparing say a guy like Larry P who has 200k sea miles under his belt and 2 cape horn crossings and 45 years of successful ocean voyaging on home built boats under 30' with a small beach open cat?
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  #134  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

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Originally Posted by Jabberwock View Post
What would be interesting is if one could compile statistics between the three classes to actually come to some conclusion backed by the evidence. Perhaps boats disabled per distance sailed or something of that nature.
Are you serious? That is ridiculous and show that you don't know of what you are talking about regarding these particular boats. If you have any doubt ask to a mini class skipper and we will take away any doubt you have.

There is a Mini Transat going on and the weather in the Biscay bay have been stormy and rough. They had to postpone the race for two weeks and when the race started they had to cancels the firs leg because they would get 35K winds on the nose. We are talking about 22ft boats. I am sure that most would have made it (more than 80) but it was too dangerous and probably some few would not make it and safety is paramount.

These conditions are not a problem for a Class 40 racer and much less for an Open 60.

There are a big race sailing out in about a day with class 40 racers (among others), however there are no safe small boats in all weather conditions and they are considering a postponement if some weather models that predict 50K winds for the first night will become more probable.

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Paulo
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  #135  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
So you are comparing say a guy like Larry P who has 200k sea miles under his belt and 2 cape horn crossings and 45 years of successful ocean voyaging on home built boats under 30' with a small beach open cat?
Well, size does not count for safety as you say and the guy that had sailed that beach cat is probably more experienced and a better sailor than Larry P.

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Paulo
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  #136  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Well, size does not count for safety as you say and the guy that had sailed that beach cat is probably more experienced and a better sailor than Larry P.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,

I said I was not going to comment on this with you any more, BUT, for you to say that Larry Pardey???

It shows your lack of knowledge and puts everything else you say in question!

I KNOW Larry, he is one hell of a sailor and I have no doubt has forgotten more about boats, boating, and building than you could dream of knowing.

You are welcome to disparage me and my choices, but NOT Friends.

Greg
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  #137  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

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Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
I read somewhere a while back that the Nor'sea 27 has more circumnavigations than any other sailboat ever built go figure...
Well, I seriously doubt that is true...

The Nor Sea 27 isn't even the most popular choice among those listed in LATITUDE 38's List of West Coast Circumnavigators, hard to imagine it would have been an even more popular choice among Europeans and other nationalities who have sailed around the world...

Latitude 38 - West Coast Circumnavigators' List

There's no question, the NS 27 is an extremely capable little boat. But I find it hard to believe that a boat originally designed and marketed to be trailerable, would have been the choice of more circumnavigators than any other boat out there...

I've never seen a definitive answer to the question, and I doubt anyone knows with any certainty, but if I had to put my finger on one boat that has gone around more than any other, I'd guess the Tayana 37... They had a very long production run, many are available at good prices, and have long seemed to me to be a very popular choice among those taking off for extended cruising. Or, perhaps the Valiant 40, or Westsail 32... Among boats under 30', I'd guess maybe the Albin Vega, or Contessa 26?
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  #138  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
.....SNIP.....
There's no question, the NS 27 is an extremely capable little boat. But I find it hard to believe that a boat originally designed and marketed to be trailerable, would have been the choice of more circumnavigators than any other boat out there...

I've never seen a definitive answer to the question, and I doubt anyone knows with any certainty, but if I had to put my finger on one boat that has gone around more than any other, I'd guess the Tayana 37... They had a very long production run, many are available at good prices, and have long seemed to me to be a very popular choice among those taking off for extended cruising. Or, perhaps the Valiant 40, or Westsail 32... Among boats under 30', I'd guess maybe the Albin Vega, or Contessa 26?

I would agree Jon,

I know they have made many and I have had the privelage to talk to a few of the owners, but my bet would be about the list you gave. I might move the Westsail 32 up a bit on the list???

Greg
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  #139  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delezynski View Post
Paulo,

I said I was not going to comment on this with you any more, BUT, for you to say that Larry Pardey???

It shows your lack of knowledge and puts everything else you say in question!

I KNOW Larry, he is one hell of a sailor and I have no doubt has forgotten more about boats, boating, and building than you could dream of knowing.

You are welcome to disparage me and my choices, but NOT Friends.

Greg
Calm down, I know Larry Pardey at least is reputation. I am not saying that I am not a better sailor than Larry Pardey. I said that in my opinion that guy that crossed the Atlantic on a beach cat is probably a better sailor than Larry Pardey. Now do you think that Larry Pardey is the better sailor in the world? Do you know that guy that crossed the Atlantic in a cat? How do you can have an opinion if you don't know that guy or his experience?

At least I know both. It seems that at least I am a bit more informed than you

How am I disparaging you or your friends? Just because I justifiably disagree with your opinions, namely about size and safety in boat?

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-02-2013 at 06:01 PM.
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  #140  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
...

There's no question, the NS 27 is an extremely capable little boat. But I find it hard to believe that a boat originally designed and marketed to be trailerable, would have been the choice of more circumnavigators than any other boat out there...

I've never seen a definitive answer to the question, and I doubt anyone knows with any certainty, but if I had to put my finger on one boat that has gone around more than any other, I'd guess the Tayana 37... They had a very long production run, many are available at good prices, and have long seemed to me to be a very popular choice among those taking off for extended cruising. Or, perhaps the Valiant 40, or Westsail 32... Among boats under 30', I'd guess maybe the Albin Vega, or Contessa 26?
Jon don't take me wrong but I find funny that when Americans talk about the boat that has made more circumnavigations they always talk about American boats. Sailing is a lot more popular in Europe and there are a lot more sailors in Europe. Do you think that French, Germans, British, Dutch, Swedish, Danes Spanish or even Portuguese when circumnavigate they do that in American boats?

More, on the last 10 years probably were made more circumnavigations than on all decades but together. Do you think that on the last 10 years the Tayanas or Vaillants were the boats more used, even by Americans?

I don't know and certainly they are not the boats more suited for it but if I would bet on a brand I would say Beneteau, Bavaria or Jeanneau, just because they are the boats that have been made in great number and the ones you can find in Europe and in the States.

Regards

Paulo
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