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  #151  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

I think as usual what is being completely lost in translation here is the difference between a seaworthy boat and seaworthy-ness. I would suspect most people reading and writing on this post have never been over a hundred miles off shore or experienced extreme weather if you have please let us know, way back someone asked us to share our level of experience but I was the only one who did so perhaps there are all sorts of arm chair sailors here parroting what they have read.
We eat just as well if not better on our small boat. Our 22' boat has a very comfortable motion and we rarely get worn out regardless of the weather. People get exhausted at sea due to lack of experience or being short handed, on a 22' boat we are never short handed. If it gets really crappy out we heave to make cookies and watch a movie, no biggie. As far as seaworty-ness if you follow the seasons and use a little bit of caution you have nothing to worry about. Sailors who have little to no time at sea always worry about storms, for those of us who have spent a lifetime out there we maintain our boats and sail. For every sailboat lost at sea hundreds are lost by hitting land due to poor anchoring or navigation. Boats catch on fire, explode sink at the dock an get hit by other boats. Seaworthy-ness of boat construction and design is 10% of being safe at sea. More boats are lost every year because people rely on crazy accurate chart plotters but many charts are over a hundred years old and very inaccurate. People rely on depth sounders which old tell you how deep the shoal you just hit are. Look at any big plastic fantastic boat and you will see a large screen tv right in your safe line of site and the skipper glued to it. Most sailors have lost the ability to think and sail as we did just a few short years ago. Motors on boats keep getting bigger and bigger as do fuel tanks. Some guy posted on here that he has 2200 hours on his 2005 sailboat, in 8 years he has motored the equivalent of half way around the world oin a sailboat.
For anyone reading this who is actually here to learn an not just in it for the endless debate of my D1(k is bigger than yours I would say.
Get a boat
learn the ropes
save a few buck
go sailing
its the safest thing you can do in this world and yes heavy weather while sometimes scary is also quite fun when you are on a boat you trust and can safely handle.
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  #152  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwock View Post

..... Snip ....
I have no vested interest in proving small boats are safer and in fact I'm not trying to do so. However, I am still wondering if in SOME situations that may be the case. I haven't seen anything yet that provides a definitive answer......Peace .
Jobberwock,

Thank you, my point exactly. I am not, and have not talked about the technical aspects of specific craft. I am NOT saying that every one should sail a boat that is XX foot long, big or small. I am not saying size takes no part in the equation. BUT I AM saying it is only part of the safety equation.

I am simply looking at the fact that so many people seem think if they, with no experience, go out and purchase a 60 foot boat, they will be so much safer than if they had purchased a 30 foot boat.

Jill and I feel safer in our, known to us, stout little boat, than if we were to hop on a 60 foot boat and just headed out. We feel STRONGLY that one member of the crew of a properly outfitted cruising boat should be able to handle the boat, with NO POWER ASSISTED equipment.

Larry P turned us on to the book, “The Venturesome Voyages of Captain Voss”. Voss sailed almost around the world, around 1900 to 1912, in Tilikum....


It's more than JUST size that makes a “safe” boat.

Greg
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  #153  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Greg yesterday there was a break in the wind and rain so finished rigging the dyneema stay and hung the storm jib to measure for sheets while looking at the runs for areas of potential chafe. Got asked " why is that sail such a funny ugly color?". Oh well.
Still, I understand you get it. What I don't understand is how you can believe there is any situation where offshore you would feel safer in your boat than mine.i respect your experience but just thinking back over the last few months when we had multiple days over 30kt and I felt blessed we were still cooking hot food, sleeping without trouble and feeling very secure and in control on watch. Please give some concrete examples where you think smaller is better
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  #154  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

It always seems to me that people with smaller boats are more interested in winning this old argument than people with larger boats. Personally I'm not interested in anyone trying to convince me that I should get a smaller boat, period! If someone else is happy with their small boat is matter not to me.

There is a lot more to boating than "safety" to which a larger boat is so much better than a small boat.
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  #155  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Greg yesterday there was a break in the wind and rain so finished rigging the dyneema stay and hung the storm jib to measure for sheets while looking at the runs for areas of potential chafe. Got asked " why is that sail such a funny ugly color?". Oh well.
Still, I understand you get it. What I don't understand is how you can believe there is any situation where offshore you would feel safer in your boat than mine.i respect your experience but just thinking back over the last few months when we had multiple days over 30kt and I felt blessed we were still cooking hot food, sleeping without trouble and feeling very secure and in control on watch. Please give some concrete examples where you think smaller is better
Outbound,

Ugly color! We love our tanbark!!
I am doing Teak just now. That and a bit of rewiring of our solar system. Having the boat on the hard close by helps me get my projects done, bit by bit.

We have spent days at sea just like you. I think it sounds like our boats are comparably equipped. We have faced some big waves and wind. Some more than the boat in the video that had to be abandoned, what was it, 30 ft & 50 K or MPH??? (we were NOT facing an approaching hurricane) We heave-to when we need to, sail when we need to and yes even motor when we need to. Like you guys, WE NEVER go hungry aboard. My waist line shows it! As we cruised I found I am always gaining weight!

Please understand, I am not saying my boat is safer than yours. What I tried to say in my posting is that size is only one part of the "safety" equation, not the "be all/end all" measure of safety. How the boat was designed, how the boat was built, how the boat is outfitted, how the crew can handle her, it ALL goes into safety. If we moved onto your boat and I had a year to learn it's system inside and out, and was sure Jill could work it without power. Then the safety factor would be the same. I am also looking at my age in the factor. No matter what I tell myself, I AM getting older and can not handle the physical things I used to. But I am also not willing to put my life in the hands of an electrical system. NOT that they fail often, just that we all know they do. We have many friends who went from smaller boats to bigger, then as time goes on, back to smaller so they can handle them.

I keep asking Jill about getting a Montgomery 17, as a "summer home". But that would NOT do blue water with us aboard.

I am always amazed at people who look at our small boat (YES, we know it's small) and tell us it's unsafe for us to go "out there".

Take the guy with a bucket of money, he goes out and buys a 55 foot boat, because it feels good at the boat show and he likes the way, when it's backed into the boat show slip, he gets on and off the boat. He takes delivery and has never owned more than a dream before this! Now that is unsafe, no matter the boat. By the way, we watched this take place!! And was at a marina when the back end of said boat needed repairs as it did not back up just like a car.

Some day, that combination will be safe if he keeps learning and knows the limits, just not now.

Greg
By the way, I NEVER thought this thread would grow like this! I was just asking a few views on the subject. Looks like I got them.
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  #156  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delezynski View Post
... What I tried to say in my posting is that size is only one part of the "safety" equation, not the "be all/end all" measure of safety. How the boat was designed, how the boat was built, how the boat is outfitted, how the crew can handle her, it ALL goes into safety. ....

By the way, I NEVER thought this thread would grow like this! I was just asking a few views on the subject. Looks like I got them.
You could have said that from the beginning and the thread would have been short. I think everybody agrees with that.

Regards

Paulo
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  #157  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
You could have said that from the beginning and the thread would have been short. I think everybody agrees with that.

Regards

Paulo
Ahhhhh yes, BUT, I would not have learned as much.

What I did said was; "How many out there equate size to safety? Does it have anything to do with it? If you think size does provide safety, why? What's the logic? ".

It seems that every one keyed in on size and few talked about ability of crew or construction of the craft as you seemed to. Not all craft are built to high standards or crews experienced enough to handle larger boats.

Greg
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  #158  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

P.S. I don't think the orange/ red storm jib is ugly.i think it's practical . Love tan bark but was told for just about any sail putting in any color decreases life expectancy.
Fair winds Greg. All the best to you and yours.
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  #159  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Love tan bark but was told for just about any sail putting in any color decreases life expectancy.
ob - I think you'll find it's just the opposite…color increases life expectancy. (Note that furling foresails usually have a dark leach. The leach is the only part of the sail exposed when furled so exposure to sun when furled has less deleterious effect.)

Remember that white colored objects reflect NO light…and colored objects reflect light with the wavelength of the color observed. So the lighter the color of an object the more light (energy) is absorbed. It's the energy of the light's waves being absorbed (rather than reflected) that breaks down the fabric and robs it of its strength.
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  #160  
Old 11-03-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Actually, White objects reflect ALL light. It is darker and black objects that absorb light
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