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  #171  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

That is a rock solid, kick ass, fun great performing boat love them!
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  #172  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Have spoken to several sail makers about this. Still went with red for the parasailor figuring I'll rip it before it wears out. (grin). Seems consensus is any color (including tanbark) added to sail decreases life expectancy. Stuff they put as UV block on roller furling sails is not part of the sail it self. On my sails even it is white to maximize life. May want to ask folks out by you see if you get different answers- I'm always curious but makes sense coloring the sail changes its chemistry so effects it's life.
So, you've gone with a Parasilor, huh?

Have you used it much, yet? Hope you'll share your impressions after using it for awhile...


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  #173  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

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Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
That is a rock solid, kick ass, fun great performing boat love them!
What boat?
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  #174  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Thinking about safety looks like there are two schools of thought. You can go small and simple or big with a lot of technology and expense to allow a reduce crew to be able to handle the larger boat. Either way the boat is probably equally safe, but the larger boat much more expensive with a lot more systems that need to be perfectly maintained (with associated costs).

Kind of like the space shuttle. This was a very complex piece of equipment, that if constructed per spec (no corner cutting on design and testing) and maintained perfectly, the space ship should perform. We know what happened with the shuttle. And how do we get to space today- We depend on the Russians, with there simple, robust space ship that uses the basic technology we used to get to the moon in the 60's over 40 years ago.
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  #175  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Just had it up once with just enough air to fill it. Still early days but it's an example how a advance in design allows a out of shape, fat old man fly a huge sail by himself safely. Much of the discussion seems biased toward smaller boats making use of believed fail safe systems and larger boats needing complicated systems. What seems to be overlooked is a lot of the new fangled stuff is really fool proof and easier. Examples
1. the parasailor
2. dutchmans and lazy jacks
3 dymeena replacing hanks on sails
4. ultra low friction blocks
etc.

These material advances make handling a 40 even 50 ft boat possible even for the geriatric crowd. And physics dictate a well founded well designed bigger boat is safer. Still, curious where folks think the break is in size before physical issues for the average cruising couple is e.g.where size becomes an issue because it's too big to handle without power.

P.S.- Paulo I went to engineering school in the beginning. Known about the spectrum. Still believe white sails last longer. We are no longer using Egyptian cotton or flax. (grin)
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  #176  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Thinking about safety looks like there are two schools of thought. You can go small and simple or big with a lot of technology and expense to allow a reduce crew to be able to handle the larger boat. Either way the boat is probably equally safe, but the larger boat much more expensive with a lot more systems that need to be perfectly maintained (with associated costs).

Kind of like the space shuttle. This was a very complex piece of equipment, that if constructed per spec (no corner cutting on design and testing) and maintained perfectly, the space ship should perform. We know what happened with the shuttle. And how do we get to space today- We depend on the Russians, with there simple, robust space ship that uses the basic technology we used to get to the moon in the 60's over 40 years ago.
When we decided what boat we would get, among others parameters, was my background. I come from the Aerospace industry and spent many years in the Specifications, design, build, integration, testing and launch of spacecraft.

I have ALWAYS looked at our boat as our very own spacecraft, we just didn't need to bring O2 with us.

Greg
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  #177  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Thinking about safety looks like there are two schools of thought. You can go small and simple or big with a lot of technology and expense to allow a reduce crew to be able to handle the larger boat. Either way the boat is probably equally safe,....
For the same type of boat, a bigger boat is safer. If the bigger boat can be sailed by that reduced crew in any circumstance, then it is a safer boat.

That do not mean the the smaller boat would not be perfectly safe on the conditions that is used but there are conditions that can be too much for any relatively small boat (even a big yacht). The bigger boat would have simply a bigger safety margin and the smaller boat will be in trouble in conditions that will not represent any problem for the bigger boat (assuming that there are a big difference in size between the two boats).

As I have been said, this is evident and it is not a way to see it, it is the only way.

Off course I am talking not not only about the same type of boat but boats with an identical quality of built. For instance a Nor'sea 37 would be safer than a Nor'sea 27, not meaning that the Nor'sea 27 is not a safe boat, just that the 37 will continue sailing in conditions were the 27 will be in trouble, or, for other type of boat, that an Oceanis 45 is safer than an Oceanis 34, meaning the same thing.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-04-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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  #178  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
..Paulo I went to engineering school in the beginning. Known about the spectrum. Still believe white sails last longer. We are no longer using Egyptian cotton or flax. (grin)
I did not said otherwise and if you understand that you have misunderstood me. White is the "color" that radiates more solar energy and absorbs less. it is logical that a white sail degrades less with solar radiation.
Regards

Paulo
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  #179  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
For the same type of boat, a bigger boat is safer. If the bigger boat can be sailed by that reduced crew in any circumstance, then it is a safer boat.

That do not mean the the smaller boat would not be perfectly safe on the conditions that is used but there are conditions that can be too much for any relatively small boat (even a big yacht). The bigger boat would have simply a bigger safety margin and the smaller boat will be in trouble in conditions that will not represent any problem for the bigger boat (assuming that there are a big difference in size between the two boats).

As I have been said, this is evident and it is not a way to see it, it is the only way.

Off course I am talking not not only about the same type of boat but boats with an identical quality of built. For instance a Nor'sea 37 would be safer than a Nor'sea 27, not meaning that the Nor'sea 27 is not a safe boat, just that the 37 will continue sailing in conditions were the 27 will be in trouble, or, for other type of boat, that an Oceanis 45 is safer than an Oceanis 34, meaning the same thing.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,
Here is an example of how a smaller boat (say my S&S 34) is safer than say a 50 footer set up for single handing. My anchor weighs 35 lbs (and I have 200 feet of all chain rhode). I can pull this anchor up (hand over hand) in less than 5 minutes. If I need to depart an anchorage in an emergency (which I have done), I can do so fast. Say on the 50 footer the windlass breaks pulling up the now 50 lb anchor that the boat requires. What then? Sure I could abandon the anchor, but that is a lot of money and not good seamenship.

A couple of times in the middle of the night we have had Tsunami warnings. I can relatively easily get my boat off the dock and out of the harbor single handed. I would not feel safe doing that with a 50 footer since many times I am dealing with strong tidal current and winds. I have seen an experienced sailing instructor have trouble docking a 40 foot boat (even with 2 aboard) due to the normal wind and tide conditions- so it is not just for my lack of skills.
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  #180  
Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

I want to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts. Now we know the crew can mean more than the type of boat. We are safe to say bigger is better. I have finished two books Twenty small boats to take you anywhere under 32 ft and Twenty affordable sailboats. 30-38 feet John Viger , Gregg Nestor. Where do you find that thin line between an aircraft carrier and a sunfish? I am doing all this reading. I am sailing when I can. Here are 40 boats to pick and look thru Plus Paulo has a Thread with many more boats. The full keel vs fin Keel thread goes on. I think new technology is great. I like ( K.I.S.S Keep it simple.... I am not a fan of one off or custom boats. I think I like to follow the herd. I am window shopping and looking for the dream. What do you all want to put in the window ?
I am happy with my (New to me fits my ability level and needs. 1974 Catalina-22)
Good day, Lou
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