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  #191  
Old 11-05-2013
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Regarding the Capes I have no idea of what are the 5. What normal is refereed in circumnavigations are the big three: The Cape of Good Hope , Cape Leeuwin, and Cape Horn.

Great capes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards

Paulo
The other 2 are the SE Cape of Tasmania, and SW Cape on Stewart Island, southernmost main island of NZ...

Some Great Cape circumnavigations might bypass the first by passing thru the Bass Strait N of Tasmania instead, or the second by going via the Cook Strait between the N and S Islands of NZ...

Jessica Watson, for example, bypassed both the SE and SW Capes on her trip... I believe all of the RTW record attempts have been made running south of all 5, though I do seem to recall that some of the boats in The Race in 2000 may have run thru the Cook Strait, perhaps to have made a pit stop in Wellington for repairs...
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Last edited by JonEisberg; 11-05-2013 at 09:16 AM.
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  #192  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
The other 2 are the SE Cape of Tasmania, and SW Cape on Stewart Island, southernmost main island of NZ...

Some Great Cape circumnavigations might bypass the first by passing thru the Bass Strait N of Tasmania instead, or the second by going via the Cook Strait between the N and S Islands of NZ...

.... I believe all of the RTW record attempts have been made running south of all 5, though I do seem to recall that some of the boats in The Race in 2000 may have run thru the Cook Strait, perhaps to have made a pit stop in Wellington for repairs...
This is the map of the triple circumnavigation on the 47ft boat:



Regarding the first one I don't think he was never North of the Equator. In fact it was a two times Antarctic circumnavigation. He passed South of the 5 more Southern Capes.

Normally today when someone talks about a circumnavigation by the three capes talks about only the three big none ones, the others are implicit. I had never heard someone talking about circumnavigating by the 5 capes even referring to passing all of them. I guess that the denomination "by the three capes" is the more common now.

Regards

Paulo
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  #193  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Casey raises two interesting issues.
As regards failed windlass. Use engine ( or sails ) to approach anchor and take strain off chain. Then use snuffer lines run back to primary winches to lay chain on side deck. Works regardless of boat size.
As regards size and docking- YOU GOT ME. No question a smaller boat is easier to handle. Had occasion that two very experienced professional captains after multiple attempts could not get my boat into position for the Newport show. Sail down was in moderate conditions ( ~25kts- full mail and solent). It took multiple line handlers (with lines run across docks by a skiff) and a push boat to get her in. Not something available to a mom and pop team. Have had occasion to just drop the hook outside and wait for wind to die before attempting docking in a slip. Find in any strong breeze even a good bow thruster may not be sufficient for single handed docking. Need security of a line handler on the pier. Never had same issue with my little PSC 34
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  #194  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Casey raises two interesting issues.
As regards failed windlass. Use engine ( or sails ) to approach anchor and take strain off chain. Then use snuffer lines run back to primary winches to lay chain on side deck. Works regardless of boat size.
As regards size and docking- YOU GOT ME. No question a smaller boat is easier to handle. Had occasion that two very experienced professional captains after multiple attempts could not get my boat into position for the Newport show. Sail down was in moderate conditions ( ~25kts- full mail and solent). It took multiple line handlers (with lines run across docks by a skiff) and a push boat to get her in. Not something available to a mom and pop team. Have had occasion to just drop the hook outside and wait for wind to die before attempting docking in a slip. Find in any strong breeze even a good bow thruster may not be sufficient for single handed docking. Need security of a line handler on the pier. Never had same issue with my little PSC 34
Outbound,

I have heard about using the winches (sheet & halyard on the mast) for doing that should the windlass break down. I keep a couple of chain hooks handy. I have never had to do it myself as we can up anchor by hand if required. Heck, Jill was the one who hauled it for the first few years by herself, Till she got smarter and started sending me forward.

What I always wondered was how well it would work in sketchy weather when it's starting to kick up and ya got to get out, but it's not bad enough to drop the gear. I also wondered what cost in deck damage would be. Not the $$$, but the actual damage to the craft.

Greg
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  #195  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

As said in prior posts windlass failure is very rare. In a catastrophe ( no juice) you do what you gotta do. I have all chain on my primary anchor . Although I guess I could use the spin halyard but the idea of having chain flying around seems scary. Rather have chain on deck so would use my snuffer lines. Find simple knot easier to work with then hooks. Motoring up to the anchor just have to lift the chain ( can do by hand) and can power over the anchor to break it free. Use primaries not mast winches as they are powered. Would use mast winches in absence of juice but might need the additional mechanical advantage of the bigger primaries. Probably wouldn't need the snuffer trick but for a little bit. Have 75lbs Rocna so anchor and chain will be a heavy lift. A little glass work gotta be better than losing the boat. It's rope not chain going to the winches with the portion of chain on deck under tension or fed into chain locker. Have snatch blocks on toes rails already for the spinnaker so can rig the snuffer line(s) through them quickly. Can't image structural damage from doing this that would threaten the boat.
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Last edited by outbound; 11-05-2013 at 12:27 PM.
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  #196  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
As said in prior posts windlass failure is very rare. In a catastrophe ( no juice) you do what you gotta do. I have all chain on my primary anchor . Although I guess I could use the spin halyard but the idea of having chain flying around seems scary. Motoring up to the anchor just have to lift the chain ( can do by hand) and can power over the anchor to break it free. Probably wouldn't need the snuffer trick but for a little bit. A little glass work gotta be better than losing the boat.
Ohhhhh YES!! better some glass work than loosing a boat.

We also carry a lot of chain rode. The last 15 ~ 20 foot on our main is line so I can cut away if needed. I have 300 ft. chain on my primary. Then about 75 ft. chain followed by 300 ft line on my second.

I have had 2 windlass failures. One (the last one), I was at fault. The first I attribute to poor engineering by the manufacturer. I am sure that they felt it was for a smaller boat, so only needed to be up to weekend sailing. In both occasions it was a small inconvenience, But it still made for a change in plans.

Greg
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  #197  
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
This is the map of the triple circumnavigation on the 47ft boat:



Regarding the first one I don't think he was never North of the Equator. In fact it was a two times Antarctic circumnavigation. He passed South of the 5 more Southern Capes.

Normally today when someone talks about a circumnavigation by the three capes talks about only the three big none ones, the others are implicit. I had never heard someone talking about circumnavigating by the 5 capes even referring to passing all of them. I guess that the denomination "by the three capes" is the more common now.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,
You do not know what the heck you are talking about. Please cease posting this incorrect information now. I will post the corrections to your post when I have some time. You have posted so much false information it will take some time to post the facts for you (promise by today though- HI time).

You were correct Jon's triple was done in a 47 footer. When I said 40 footer, I was just trying to get in the ball park- could not remember the exact size.
Regards
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delezynski View Post
Ohhhhh YES!! better some glass work than loosing a boat.

We also carry a lot of chain rode. The last 15 ~ 20 foot on our main is line so I can cut away if needed. I have 300 ft. chain on my primary. Then about 75 ft. chain followed by 300 ft line on my second.

I have had 2 windlass failures. One (the last one), I was at fault. The first I attribute to poor engineering by the manufacturer. I am sure that they felt it was for a smaller boat, so only needed to be up to weekend sailing. In both occasions it was a small inconvenience, But it still made for a change in plans.

Greg
When I purchased my boat it had a manual windlass. Thing was ceased up and could not get parts. I sent it to the recycler and installed a massive bronze mooring bit (Buck Alogoquin 7x7). This thing is much more usefull than a windlass. Can moor the boat with it or run an sea acnchor if needed. I reinforced the deck below where the mooring bit is through bolted.
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delezynski View Post
Ohhhhh YES!! better some glass work than loosing a boat.

We also carry a lot of chain rode. The last 15 ~ 20 foot on our main is line so I can cut away if needed. I have 300 ft. chain on my primary. Then about 75 ft. chain followed by 300 ft line on my second.

I have had 2 windlass failures. One (the last one), I was at fault. The first I attribute to poor engineering by the manufacturer. I am sure that they felt it was for a smaller boat, so only needed to be up to weekend sailing. In both occasions it was a small inconvenience, But it still made for a change in plans.

Greg
Windlasses are only made to lift the anchor and its chain, not for breaking the anchor free. I found this out once while I was trying to help a skipper free his 50 new yacht. I swam his anchor out so I could use the manual windlass to winch his boat off the sand bar- well I cranked on that windlass until somthing stripped.
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Casey raises two interesting issues.
As regards failed windlass. Use engine ( or sails ) to approach anchor and take strain off chain. Then use snuffer lines run back to primary winches to lay chain on side deck. Works regardless of boat size.
As regards size and docking- YOU GOT ME. No question a smaller boat is easier to handle. Had occasion that two very experienced professional captains after multiple attempts could not get my boat into position for the Newport show. Sail down was in moderate conditions ( ~25kts- full mail and solent). It took multiple line handlers (with lines run across docks by a skiff) and a push boat to get her in. Not something available to a mom and pop team. Have had occasion to just drop the hook outside and wait for wind to die before attempting docking in a slip. Find in any strong breeze even a good bow thruster may not be sufficient for single handed docking. Need security of a line handler on the pier. Never had same issue with my little PSC 34
Ok, good, now I know its not just my poor boat control when I try to dock. Problem I have with my dock is I am in I guess what you call a double slip. Two boats in the slip with nothing between (not even a piling where I could run a line to fend off against. I am not overly concerned about touching the dock with my boat, but makes me nervous as hell about touching my neighbors boat. Especially when wind blowing me off the dock and in direction of neighboring boat. If I had my own slip, I would line it with fenders and just ram the boat in- no worries.
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