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  #1  
Old 10-26-2013
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Prices

Boy, I'm frustrated by prices here in Arizona, they seem to be 25-30% higher than any coastal community. I spend tons of time on-line just looking at boats and prices in California and Florida and when the occasional boat becomes for sale here in Arizona the price isn't even close to others I see around the country.

I'm still looking for the perfect 1st boat and passed on a Catalina 25 that need a fair amount of work, mostly detailing, lines, pulleys, blocks and a new outboard for somewhere in the mid $6's and they were asking mid $8's. I just felt like I could be into this boat for another $4,000 or more easy and quickly and if that was the case I may just as well buy a nicer boat like the 27 below.

Then I saw a really nice, mint Catalina 27 for $10k and it's still available at that price but I'm sort of intimidated by the size and the fact I would be held hostage on haul outs if I needed one. It also had a diesel inboard, which I really don't 100% need for a large lake. Then you also have stuffing box issues, through hulls, transmissions, yada, yada, yada. It was beautiful though and would need nothing. It would be also very roomy and comfortable for spending the whole weekend on it

Then today I saw this posted:

CATALINA 1987 SAILBOAT 22 '

It looks loved, but $8,000+ for a Catalina 22

I'm going to look at it in the morning as it would be less to slip, insure and maintain than the 27.

Thoughts
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Prices

the insurance will only be dollars cheaper. the slip a little more. but if you want to spend weekends you will tire of the 22 quickly get the 27 and enjoy. once you go inboard you will not go back even for a lake. step on the boat, start the engine, untie the lines and you are gone for the weekend.
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Prices

It's worth it to pay somewhat more for a boat that is in good or excellent shape. You can't believe the time and money required to bring a "beater" (car talk?) up to sailing ready condition. Double or triple what you think.
I agree you don't need an inboard for lake sailing - except maybe the Great Lakes, or as we call 'em the "Sweetwater Seas".
And BTW, if you are looking as far away from AZ as Florida, check out the Great Lakes too. Fresh water is much easier on a boat. Our standing rigging, for ex, lasts easily twice as long.
Get a survey.
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Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Prices

Make him an offer based on other Catalinas with similar traits. One of three things will happen, He'll get so pissed he won't counter, or, he will counter then the game begins or he will accept your offer. Nice looking boat, you didn't mention how many people are going to be on the boat or if you plan to sail other waters. I like the fact the boat comes with a trailer, you won't be help hostage by the pirates of the marinas, and the boat will do 55 mph to weather. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
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Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Prices

The house that sells for $250k in Scottsdale sells for $800K in NY or SanFrancisco. Location, location, location. Consider yourself lucky! You CAN ship the boat, you CAN'Tship the house.

Think about how you want to use the boat and make the decision based on that need. Price is only one part of the equation, and not nearly the most important. You will get 3' itis soon after you make a purchase....try to skip a few feet early if you can.
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Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Prices

I'd say 80% of the time I'd be single handed and at the most I would have one other aboard.

I may bring a buddy up, or a date, for a sail now and again, but mostly it's for me to have a place to zone out, relax and become a proficient sailor. In 3-5 years I would sell it and buy in California so I would have a weekend getaway spot, probably mid 30ftr.

I'm not the type of guy that would spend any nights on it, I just prefer the comforts of home even if I did the 27' as the lake is 25 miles from my house.

I'm deathly afraid of "3 ft it is" and would prefer a 25 if I could find one along the condition lines of that 22' I put the link too. I've walked the docks and there are only 4 or 5 25's at the whole lake, 2 27's, about a 1/2 dozen 30's and about 3 dozen 22's. We even have a coupe of 40's

Oh, I would never tow it, I really don't need a trailer but it's a nice luxury for bottom paint time and you get a trailer spot free with the slip. there's only guy at the marina with a shop and he charges $500 for haul out, round trip.

I spent a lot of time a few weeks ago trying to find someone that would do a survey. Can't find one in AZ. The guy at the Sailboat shop at Lake Pleasant won't do it as he said he has made to many enemies when he brought up issues that prevented a sale. He'll give you quote on repairs on anything that you discover on your own. I did find two guys that do pre-sale inspection but they specialize in power boats and said they new nothing about sailboats but would look at the diesel or the outboard.

You right about location, if you spend $500k out here it's a mansion, lol....

Last edited by azguy; 10-26-2013 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Prices

Have you walked the docks around you? Visit Marinas and look on thier bulletin boards and docks, you will find better deals. My first boat was a Chrysler 22 that I saw sitting in someones back yard and it would have been mine for the taking if I didn't ask the guys neighbor first. The neighbor got it and then traded me for an engine he needed.

You also should look on craigs list. Don't be afraid of a boat that needs alittle work if its your first boat, it will give you a chance to learn more about it and maintenance which will save you money in the long run.
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Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Prices

I bought a 27' boat as my first. I have it on an inland lake. Since you want to go bigger in the future, getting a 27' boat will give you the experience with the same systems as the larger one will have, only smaller. Then, the larger boat won't be so intimidating.

My boat is also about 60 miles from home so spending a night once in awhile isn't too bad. Go step foot on each one and think about how you might have it setup. You'll be able to see if I it'll work for you.
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Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Prices

The owner of the 27' took me out for an entire day, we spent 6 hours on it. It's a beautiful boat with new sails, new lines, new bimini tops, new pulleys, blocks, cushions, batteries, etc.

I just found it BIG compared to the 22's I have been renting. It wasn't an issue with the two of us on the boat as we took turns working the Jib lines and tiller. I'm cautious and thought wow, could I do this by myself.....

It was roomy comfortable and very easy to have 4 on board with no issues. He spared no expense and had $22,000 in receipts in the past 6 years.

I've look at a few 25's and found them perfect in size. I just don't want a project boat and end up getting carried away and spending another $5,000 on any boat I buy. I just can't find one that has been overly loved and then cast aside, lol....

It's a hard decision. I took ASA 101 and 103 at this lake so I get to rent Catalina 22's for $75 a half day so I've done that about 5 times over the course of the summer. It's fine for me on a Saturday morning with my cooler and I-Pad but it would be limited from an entertaining standpoint.
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Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by azguy View Post
Then today I saw this posted:

CATALINA 1987 SAILBOAT 22 '

It looks loved, but $8,000+ for a Catalina 22
A well loved Catalina 22 sold for about that on my old dock recently. It looked quite similar to this one, but in even a little better condition. The exterior looked like a brand new boat, despite being almost 30 years old. My concern for the one you listed would be sail condition, but $1000 also gets you a new set of Catalina 22 sails.

On outboard powered mass produced boats roughly 25' and under I think that the price comes much more from condition than the size of the boat. The difference between a 25' and 22' boat might be $1000-$1500 of the price. The difference between "needs nothing and in very good condition" vs "old sails, motor, cushions, needs cleaning and waxing" is $6000.

That is a cheap 22' boat might be $1500-$2000, a very nice one $7500-$8000. A cheap 25' boat might be $2500-$3000 and go up to just under $10k on the very nice side of things.
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