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Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

20K views 75 replies 42 participants last post by  HMSVictory 
#1 ·
I've been wondering about keeping a boat anchored for several months, and not paying a marina. Is it possible? I guess it depends on the circumstances, and that's what the rest of this is about.

I've heard that certain places, such as populated places like California have time restrictions on anchoring. I understand that, but as far as I know most other places don't.

If you're not in an anchorage, you're supposed to have an anchor light. That can be done with a battery and solar panel, so that's no problem.

Then there's the weather. My assumption is that if the boat can be sailed in rough waters, that it can also be anchored in the same conditions with a proper anchor setup. Is there any chance that this could work in larger unprotected waters? It's amazing how small anchors are compared to the sizes of boats that they are used on. Making a bigger or better one would not be hard at all. Waves must get worse as the water gets shallower, but a long line isn't very expensive and a homemade mooring isn't hard to make.

Here in the Illinois river or Peoria Lake as they call part of it, there are some very wide areas that are far from the channel. I've seen a few pontoon boats beached in front of some people's houses, but nothing anchored out. Why don't people do it?

If I bought some $300 piece of junk boat, couldn't I keep it anchored, and if something happened, it really wouldn't be much of a loss.
 
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#34 ·
Scope rules are 7 times the sum of the depth at High Tide plus the height of your bow over the water. The height of your bow can make a serious difference in scope, especially in shallower water. Some say all chain can be reduced to 5X, however, I only do for short stays in relatively calm weather.

Consider 10x for storm conditions.
 
#35 ·
I once met a guy living on a delilect boat (Catalina 27') moored on the Atlantic side of Key Largo. The boat had no sails, enigine or head, I asked him about the head and he said he uses the bathroom at the gas station when he goes for his coffee in the morning. He had been living there for 15 years when I met him. I aslo asked him what about when a hurricane comes along and he said the boat is chained to 3 engine blocks and hasn't dragged yet, so it can be done. Should also add that guy would probably be living under a bridge if he didn't have the boat.
 
#36 ·
I sail on a lake (dammed up river) in Central Ohio. If you are talking about leaving your boat in the water in IL I would strongly discourage you. You mentioned central IL so I'm assuming we are about the same latitude, and therefore have similar climate. Our lake freezes over, to some degree, every year. The City who controls the lake (Columbus) makes everyone remove all boats, docks and any other man-made objects from the water from November to April. Why? Because of ice. In the spring, when the ice melts and the rain comes harder, the ice starts to move. Anything in its way gets pushed down river. A few years ago, my sailing club left an old dock beside our ramp, with the idea that our Laser fleet could use it to launch to do some frostbite sailing. The lake froze before we had a chance to pull it out. Next spring it was GONE! There was no trace of it whatsoever. The Ice which held it in place so we couldn't get it out had taken it away, never to be seen again. We had the dock chained directly to our sea wall, so it wasn't like the anchor dragged. My own personal guess is that the ice caused the dock to break as it strained against the chains.
 
#37 ·
The best I got is bow and stern anchors with at least 5 to 1 scope with vessel headed into prevailing winds. Use anchors at least 1.5 times larger than you think will hold it. Also say a couple hail mary's when you leave it checking on it weekly is needed. To insure it doesn't have problems
 
#39 ·
Steele's plans for a boat are a contentious topic for most of us but please remember to refrain from name calling and personal attacks. If he forgot that he asked the same question three years ago, the same may happen again and it may all come to nothing.
 
#40 ·
This is an interesting subject regardless of the OP's intent.

i've often wondered if a boat could survive a blow anchored out. For example:
Hurricane/Storm Sandy; if you knew that your boat was doomed for certain destruction, left in a marina. Would you take a chance and anchor it out? proper depth, lots of scope and lots of anchors in series or separate?

I responded to Sandy (the day after) and walked 70 percent of staten island's shoreline to survey damage and check on people. It was a sad experience walking thru marinas. I felt at the time the boats were better off at sea. (or anchored out) I tracked commercial ships that rode out the storm under power just outside the city. That was amazing.
 
#45 ·
With respect to the OP question, I have spent a lot of time in open roadsteads - more than I would like. As Jeff H states sometimes there are no alternatives.

i've often wondered if a boat could survive a blow anchored out. For example:
Hurricane/Storm Sandy; if you knew that your boat was doomed for certain destruction, left in a marina. Would you take a chance and anchor it out? proper depth, lots of scope and lots of anchors in series or separate?
My hurricane strategy is to get the heck off the dock and away from things that might punch holes in my boat. I've weathered near misses of four or five hurricanes and Superstorm Sandy (in Chesapeake Bay, which mostly dodged that bullet) at anchor. I'll do it again.
 
#42 ·
Unless one is in a very secure hurricane hole, I don't think its likely that anchoring out would be any better. I agree that you are far from guaranteed when tied to the dock. Our floating docks came within a foot or so of floating off their pilings, due to surge.

For that matter, think about the additional scope necessary with a 9 foot surge. If you are anchored in 10 ft of water, you will nearly double your need for scope. Add any significant fetch and you're odds aren't very good.

Tied to a hurricane moorings in a very secure hurricane hole is pretty good, assuming you have excellent chafing gear and don't break off. There just aren't many of these.
 
#43 ·
Thanks to the OP for asking this question, it is something I have been curious about.

Unfortunately there weren't many (any ?) good responses to the question.

Obviously anchoring in unprotected waters is done, especially in the South Pacific, at least for short periods of time. If it wasn't possible nobody could go to Pitcairn Island which has no protected anchorages.
 
#44 · (Edited)
If I bought some $300 piece of junk boat, couldn't I keep it anchored, and if something happened, it really wouldn't be much of a loss.
As I read this thread, as much as I am uncomfortable with the tone, I somewhat understand the frustration on both sides. To the original question quoted above, yes, it is possible to anchor a boat in ways that it can be considered reasonably safe. There are mooring areas all over the country, many of which are quite exposed, were people routinely leave their boats unattended. As some have suggested, this is not as simple as it may sound. The anchoring system needs to be robust, you need a reliable way to tie the anchor rode to the boat, and you need ways to avoid the anchor lines from chafing through. It may be possible to do that inexpensively, but it will require some ingenuity and forethought.

Back in the early 1970's, when I graduated from college, I bought an old wooden boat for $400 and fixed her up to live on.


In those days, a lot of boats anchored for free in the open rodestead that was outside of the barrier islands at Dinner Key in Florida. Those were less regulated times, but even back then, that anchorage was known by the nickname of 'the pirates'. The pirates could be very rough since it was open to winds and waves off of Biscayne Bay and the Atlantic several miles beyond. It could also be very crowded in there with boats of all sizes, costs and with skippers of a wide range of experience levels. It was not all that unusual for people to anchor there for months and years at a time. It was not unusual for boats to drag and cause problems.

Many of us were on very tight budgets and would come up with comparatively inexpensive ways to moor our boats. The standard set up for the budget challenged was a mix of scavanged anchors and heavy automotive engine parts. Typically, in the 12 foot depth of water in the pirates, the small boat set up was that there would be a multiple anchor set-up with two or three anchors spread out in at least two directions with a huge amount of scope. Typically the anchors were set in the bottom and then perhaps 30-50 feet from the anchor would be some kind of very heavy engine part(s) (40-60 lbs) and then there would be another 50-60 feet of line to the boat.

The heavy engine part(s) would act a snubber to take the impact in the anchor line so that almost no load was placed on the anchor itself, and what load that did pull on the anchor occurred close to parallel with the bottom. This set-up was seen as not requiring chain since chain was expensive, but it did take a lot of line.

The enemy of any such rig is chafe. The rope of choice in those days was cheap quality, over sized, three strand nylon. There would be a thimble spliced in where the rode was shackled to the anchor. It might have leather stiched on. There was typically an eye splice pigtail spliced into the rode where the engine part(s) was attached, and the engine part was typically attached with galvanized chain, which also had leather chafe gear where the chain was attached to the eye splice. (The leather came from buying really beat up old shoes at the Goodwill. In those days there as a nearly free bin of almost too bad to wear shoes.)

Chafe was a very serious problem where the lines came aboard the boat and at the cleats. In those days, we used to be able to get scraps of fire hose from local fire departments and that was cut open and stitched in multiple layers to the anchor line to make up the chafe gear of choice. These days I use very heavy duty ballistic nylon that can be bought at a fabric store.

As a community no matter how meager our boats, we all watched out for each other and our own boats. There were always boats which would try to drag ashore in storms and we would pitch in to prevent that or to free them when we could.

So, "If I bought some $300 piece of junk boat, couldn't I keep it anchored?" Sure, it can be done.

But that comes to the second point that came up in this thread. Many of us who are sailors, have trememdous respect for the natural world we live in. And out of that respect, we feel a very strong reponsibility for minimizing the negative impact of our passage through that natural world. While we cannot easily change what goverments, businesses, or individuals do on shore, or how they impact the environment, we can change our own patterns of behavior and can feel a very strong personal responsibility to handle our lives and our boats in a way that does not damage the natural environment or leave trash behind for someone else to deal with.

We understand that while this lifestyle may seem to be about our personal responsibility and our personal sense of freedom, what we do and how it is percieved impacts more than just us. it impacts our fellow sailors, and how all of us are perceived, let alone the impact on the bigger community of man and nature. We understand when one of us acts irresponsibly, and becomes a poster child for recklessness, we sailors all may suffer under the punitive pendulum-swing laws which are levied against all boaters, not just the individual who allowed his poor judgement to temper the non-sailor's view of the sailing community.

So, while some of the comments above may strike you as being fascistic, they come out of a sense that many of us share, that with personal freedom, comes a personal responsibilty not to trash the world we live in, and to try to not to be an imposition on others, to give as much (or more) than we receive. In my mind there is nothing inherently wrong with buying a cheap old boat and keeping it on a mooring, but I, like many above, suggest that the statement, " if something happened, it really wouldn't be much of a loss." suggests a lack of personal responsibility, and an perhaps incomplete understanding of what it would cost to clean up a wreck, pay damages, and fines. It also ignores that sometimes the damage is irreparable/irreplaceable.

The point being that if you choose to buy a wreck and anchor it out, do it responsibly. Think through how you will anchor the boat very carefuly, pay attention to the chafe and water in the bilge. Pull up your anchors and inspect them regularly. Get the boat out of the water if there is ice which can cut through an anchor line very quickly. Because in the end, should you lose your boat, it could be a much bigger loss to you and all of us than the value of the boat itself.

Respectfully,
Jeff
 
#48 ·
But that comes to the second point that came up in this thread. Many of us who are sailors, have trememdous respect for the natural world we live in. And out of that respect, we feel a very strong reponsibility for minimizing the negative impact of our passage through that natural world. While we cannot easily change what goverments, businesses, or individuals do on shore, or how they impact the environment, we can change our own patterns of behavior and can feel a very strong personal responsibility to handle our lives and our boats in a way that does not damage the natural environment or leave trash behind for someone else to deal with.

We understand that while this lifestyle may seem to be about our personal responsibility and our personal sense of freedom, what we do and how it is percieved impacts more than just us. it impacts our fellow sailors, and how all of us are perceived, let alone the impact on the bigger community of man and nature. We understand when one of us acts irresponsibly, and becomes a poster child for recklessness, we sailors all may suffer under the punitive pendulum-swing laws which are levied against all boaters, not just the individual who allowed his poor judgement to temper the non-sailor's view of the sailing community.

So, while some of the comments above may strike you as being fascistic, they come out of a sense that many of us share, that with personal freedom, comes a personal responsibilty not to trash the world we live in, and to try to not to be an imposition on others, to give as much (or more) than we receive. In my mind there is nothing inherently wrong with buying a cheap old boat and keeping it on a mooring, but I, like many above, suggest that the statement, " if something happened, it really wouldn't be much of a loss." suggests a lack of personal responsibility, and an perhaps incomplete understanding of what it would cost to clean up a wreck, pay damages, and fines. It also ignores that sometimes the damage is irreparable/irreplaceable.
Ahhh, the world would be a far better place, if it were filled with more like you, my friend :)

South Florida is now littered with barely floating pieces of (bird)crap, such as this POS moored near The Lorelei in Islamorada...



The taxpaying owners of expensive waterfront property will rightfully have their way in the end, and we will all wind up paying a heavy price for the irresponsibility of a few... Perhaps the saddest thing, is that there already exist legal statutes to deal with this plague, but lax to nonexistent enforcement will only result in more restrictions being put on the books...
 
#49 ·
The surge on Chesapeake Bay during Sandy was trivial. I've seen surge up to eight feet in earlier storms and I just keep letting chain out.

In the past, I have ridden out storms aboard while Janet stayed in the house. In Sandy after two days without power she looked down the basement stairs to see a laundry basket drift past. *sigh* Now our plan is for both of us to stay on the boat, at anchor, in major storms.

Janet will make sure I pump out the dinghy at the earliest time and trudge in to check on the house while she stays aboard where it is warm, dry, there is power and Internet and TV.
 
#47 ·
I think Jeff said it much better than I could. Can you do it, perhaps, should you do it absolutely not. Especially not in Illinois. If you want to live like your in a third world why not take it to the third world? I am not being nasty, but we here know better than to pollute, leave sunken boats and what not. There are places where they do not have the resources to do better, and do not fully understand what effect they are going to have on the environment. We here have the benefit to understand that it is not the right thing to do. It really is about being responsible for your own actions. Sure our government may make the choice to discharge pollution all the time, but that does not release us of our responsibility to leave the earth in a better condition than when we came to her. We don't say well they pollute so I will to, instead we should say how can we stop that pollution.
 
#53 ·
This is your first post? You don't know anything about me.

You're half-right- I'm an *******, but I'm not a rich yottie, unless you think a 43 year old, dirty, worn-down sloop is "high living."

I know times are tough and people are looking for places to live, but guys like the PO (this thread is 2yo BTW) are responsible for making life tough for law abiding sailors.

You can be down on your luck, broke and living aboard a crap boat without being a total moron, littering, polluting and being a hazard to navigation by securing your boat incorrectly.

I know, because I've done it!

I'll quote myself from the earlier post- Get a clue, mate!
 
#58 ·
It looked like a troll to me. Get a quick response and go back under the bridge. At my marina, btw, we have a number of people that would be homeless without their boats. They are required to keep them seaworthy along with the rest of us.They are just more inventive, and the boats usually much smaller.
 
#60 · (Edited)
If you're talking about me I was googling the size an anchor should be for long-term stays and this thread came up, and I saw this guy's response and I was just so Appalled I felt compelled to join the forum ( of course I have other better things to discuss but that post just really p-o'd me.

True may be a lot of anchorites will never be real sailors but that doesn't mean we should rob them of their way of life and livelihood around my way a lot of people who live at anchor are smalltime fisherman for example and need to be close to the water it's a whole lifestyle for them. And they serve the dock queen owners with amazing fresh fish they couldn't get anywhere else. So everyone has their place in the harbor.

Alongside that all of the paranoid( of rough around the edges anchorites) boat owners of the Marinas are trying to blame all of the water pollution on the anchor dwellerswhen in fact there are far less of them than doc Queens and they pollute far less
 
#59 ·
im 33, by the time i retire the whole sailing lifestyle will be taxed to hell and banned nearly everywhere because of people finding loopholes in the law. sometimes common courtesy needs to be observed above and beyond the law. following the letter of the law simply means if you could do less you would. atleast with many people
 
#61 · (Edited)
No one here cares much if you anchor out forever. Heck leave your boat anchored out for years and you will join a pretty select club of cruisers that have gone long periods of time between tying up in port.

But that isn't what this thread is about. This is about a guy who wanted to buy a derelict boat and anchor it out. With the expectation that if/when it sank he could just walk away from it with no consequences. Well just like in every other part of life leaving your mess behind and refusing to pick it up isn't acceptable. Besides pushing the bill for your mess of on someone else, it's this attitude that has caused so many states to place these anchoring restrictions in the first place.

There isn't a cruiser anywhere that's likes anchoring restrictions, and it's this assumption by a few that if the boat sinks they will just walk away that has caused them. I like live aboard in my marina, I like liveaboards who are doing it on small boats. What I don't like are the derelict boats that stink, look like a trash heap, and are populated by meth heads (seriously had a guy here cooking meth on his trash heap) who when the boat sinks just up and walk away.
 
#62 ·
There isn't a cruiser anywhere that's likes anchoring restrictions, and it's this assumption by a few that if the boat sinks they will just walk away that has caused them. I like live aboard in my marina, I like liveaboards who are doing it on small boats. What I don't like are the derelict boats that stink, look like a trash heap, and are populated by meth heads (seriously had a guy here cooking meth on his trash heap) who when the boat sinks just up and walk away.
And that my friends is the quote of the day. Nice Summary.
 
#69 · (Edited)
It's pretty amazing how long derelict boats stick around. GRP just about forever. Even steel takes decades and decades. Sure when they sink they may serve as a nidus for marine growth and eventually a reef if climate change allows. But more often you see carribean shores polluted with these derelicts and inhabited by vermin. Guess Florida wants to prevent that.
Those that sink add innumerable toxins from their batteries, lubricants, and residual fuel. "owners" are held harmless as they are judgment proof given they commonly have no assets to go after or there is no line of provable ownership.
Here I think Florida is taking the wrong tactic. Interdiction should occur before sinking. Any boat that cannot travel let's say 20m under its own power is confiscated and impounded. Owner is given 30d to make it seaworthy, submit a plan to make it seaworthy ( follow up required) or arrange removal to inland facilities. After that it's owned by the state. State either repurposes it ( artificial reef, fill, road material etc.) but at least removes toxic materials. Of course if there is no proof of ownership state owns it right off.
Coastal home owners are happy. Mariners are happy. Environmentalists are happy. Fish are happy. In the end would cost the state less than the current rigamarole.
Lots of people take good care of their boats and surroundings with limited resources but no deficiency of hard work, pride and skill. This is not a class war thing. It's a human thing where adults should take responsibility for themselves.

Lastly would note many New England towns have rules inforced by their harbomasters requiring a certain type of mooring ( now commonly a screw) equipped with specified chain and pendant and serviced at specified intervals. Placement is controlled and restricted. Long term anchoring is not encouraged. Expect them to visit if you're there for what they think is too long. Any anchoring is limited to specific fields.
 
#70 ·
Indeed, many boats are aground / beached / half sunk around the Miami harbors. I visited one last night actually. It has bronze winches on it and I was tempted to take them
z but they are still someone's property it would seem. Somehow the prestigious local sailing club still affords the wreckage one of their insanely high demand mooring balls . If it was not on one I certainly would have taken the winches and probably many before me.The boat has a ticket on it dated months ago saying that if not removed in 30 days it would be towed or smashed at owners expense. But of course that hasn't happened yet. So I guess they are not that serious about those promises. Oil leakage I can see as a problem, but battery acids not so much. Of all the derelicts I've explored and helped clean up( admittedly less than a dozen) I've never once seen a battery. You see there is a natural solution out in the Miami harbors... People who need things come on a dark night and take them and batteries are at a premium. In a way those pesky anchorites are actually being of use scavenging off half sunken derelicts
 
#74 ·
....The boat has a ticket on it dated months ago saying that if not removed in 30 days it would be towed or smashed at owners expense. But of course that hasn't happened yet. So I guess they are not that serious about those promises.....
In the US, every state is different, but even a derelict is someone else's property, so they define a due process for when anyone, including a municipality, can just take it. Personal property rights are a huge deal here. Often, all it takes is the slightest objection from the owner and a judge will delay the action. Not only is one presumed innocent, but a huge benefit of the doubt is provided before your property is taken, in most circumstances. If not a due process problem, the next issue is the expense of taking the vessel, and in some cases, the new obligation to now look after it, while the owner gets the right to redeem it.

In the end, it's a nightmare and most go untouched as a result.

Then, land lubbers, who grossly outnumber sailors, pass laws preventing anyone from anchoring their in the first place.
 
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