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Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

20K views 75 replies 42 participants last post by  HMSVictory 
#1 ·
I've been wondering about keeping a boat anchored for several months, and not paying a marina. Is it possible? I guess it depends on the circumstances, and that's what the rest of this is about.

I've heard that certain places, such as populated places like California have time restrictions on anchoring. I understand that, but as far as I know most other places don't.

If you're not in an anchorage, you're supposed to have an anchor light. That can be done with a battery and solar panel, so that's no problem.

Then there's the weather. My assumption is that if the boat can be sailed in rough waters, that it can also be anchored in the same conditions with a proper anchor setup. Is there any chance that this could work in larger unprotected waters? It's amazing how small anchors are compared to the sizes of boats that they are used on. Making a bigger or better one would not be hard at all. Waves must get worse as the water gets shallower, but a long line isn't very expensive and a homemade mooring isn't hard to make.

Here in the Illinois river or Peoria Lake as they call part of it, there are some very wide areas that are far from the channel. I've seen a few pontoon boats beached in front of some people's houses, but nothing anchored out. Why don't people do it?

If I bought some $300 piece of junk boat, couldn't I keep it anchored, and if something happened, it really wouldn't be much of a loss.
 
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#4 ·
Yes ... there is a strong attitude against anyone trying to do things a different way to cut costs. Everyone is expected to have safety equipment which is only considered necessary in 1st world countries where it can be afforded, and everyone is expected to have a proper marina or mooring and be insured, even though it is not required by law.

Someone may expect YOU to remove it when it washes up on their front lawn.
If it is properly secured that would never happen. What could happen is it would sink. If the mast was down and it sank in deep water, it would just join the many other pieces of junk on the sea floor. Nobody would ever know that anything happened. People spend more time being upset about about some harmless non oil polluting wreck than they did about Deepwater Horizon.
 
#6 ·
Why would you want to stay so long in one place? A boat is to GO with.
 
#9 ·
Because he's a BUM. He's not looking to "go" anywhere, he's looking to anchor his POS $300 "home" somewhere, so that he can beat the cost of land-based rent and taxes.

As I often say, I am a huge advocate of saving abandoned sailboats that are still in useful condition, often to the point that a lot of people think I take things too far. Then, someone like this guy comes along and completely exceeds even my tolerance for buying junk boats and acting (or proposing) totally irresponsible behavior.

I love the line "that would never happen".
Steel, just because the boat is "out of sight", doesn't mean that it's not an environmental hazard down at the bottom of the river. It also doesn't mean that you are not legally responsible for cleaning up your trash.

People like this: CNN Hero are cleaning up after people like you.

You asked why people don't do this-
Because it's impractical, unsafe, and irresponsible. Does that answer your question?

Get a clue, mate or take up golf.
 
#7 ·
So long as it is legal to anchor long term where you choose, yes you can do so. Should your boat sink you are legally required to have it floated and hauled out. As well as pay the fines for any damage done, and the environmental fines for any pollution or sewage that is released. Should it wash ashore you are responsible for removal and any damage that occurs, including any cost for environmental fines.
 
#8 ·
If we ignore for the moment, whether it's legal, responsible, reasonable or desirable, let's just look at the practicality.

It's amazing how small anchors are compared to the sizes of boats that they are used on. Making a bigger or better one would not be hard at all. Waves must get worse as the water gets shallower, but a long line isn't very expensive and a homemade mooring isn't hard to make.
I can only assume that you don't know much about anchors or moorings. BTW, it's unclear which you are proposing - If it's really a mooring, how are you going to set it in place?

If it is properly secured that would never happen.
Really? I can only assume that you don't know much about anchors or moorings.

What could happen is it would sink. If the mast was down and it sank in deep water, it would just join the many other pieces of junk on the sea floor. Nobody would ever know that anything happened.
You can see the contradiction between water shallow enough to anchor and deep enough to sink without a trace, right?

Could you do it? Maybe.
Is it safe or practical? Under the scenario you describe, those two are probably mutually exclusive.
 
#10 ·
I anchor a lot, almost always when I cruise and sometimes I anchor in settled weather on relatively unprotected waters. It can be done on one condition: To set sail immediately out of there at the first sign of stronger weather coming, no matter the hour of the day or the night.

It is not obviously what you are talking about. Even on protected waters there are not many places where a boat can be safely on anchor all year around, no matter the weather.
 
#11 · (Edited)
boatpoker,
It would be funny if you were also participating in the Why is Sailing Dying Why are no New Young People Getting in to Sailing thread.

manatee,
Well I'm not alone, look at nearly every boat at the local marina.

or sewage that is released.
Even if I anchor my boat next to the big water outlet with the big sign that says "COMBINED SEWER OVERFLOW", and it sinks there? This is ridiculous.

The funny thing is, a while back on this forum there was a thread about an abandoned boat somewhere in the north east US. The anchor rode was chafing and the owner could not be found. People on this forum were telling him to do the right thing and take the boat out at night and sink it. If pollution from a sunken fiberglass boat is so bad, then why suggest doing it?

Geoff54,
Two things at once:
1)Why don't people anchor in the lake areas of the Illinois river where it is fairly protected.
2) Out of curiosity is it possible to do deep water moorings in unprotected waters?

As far as the lake goes, I guess it is possible with a proper anchor. As for deep water mooring, I'm curious as to what would happen.

How to get a mooring out there? Get a big barrel on deck and fill it with concrete little by little, with a big hook or chain at the top and some rebar to hold it togehter. Then push it over the side when it is finished. The deck may need to have wooden supports under the barrel. Could also get a big barrel with a hatch on the top and fill it with concrete as it floats in the water. Then float it out to the location and sink it. Stainless steel chains would go inside the concrete.

The attachment to the mooring on the boat can be reinforced.

Because he's a BUM. He's not looking to "go" anywhere, he's looking to anchor his POS $300 "home" somewhere, so that he can beat the cost of land-based rent and taxes.
fascist! Why did you send me a friend request after all this? Were you trying to use the ignore feature instead?

PCP,
Of course no anchoring in the ice. Out of curiosity, if you had a strong mooring and a strong 200 meter long line to it out in water that is 30m deep, could you handle a storm? Or should I say: What would be required?

How about some technical numbers as to why thinks can't be done a certain way. "Impractical" doesn't tell me much. "The mooring would need to be able to hold half of the displacement of the boat" would.
 
#15 ·
boatpoker,
It would be funny if you were also participating in the Why is Sailing Dying Why are no New Young People Getting in to Sailing thread.

manatee,
Well I'm not alone, look at nearly every boat at the local marina.

Even if I anchor my boat next to the big water outlet with the big sign that says "COMBINED SEWER OVERFLOW", and it sinks there? This is ridiculous.

The funny thing is, a while back on this forum there was a thread about an abandoned boat somewhere in the north east US. The anchor rode was chafing and the owner could not be found. People on this forum were telling him to do the right thing and take the boat out at night and sink it. If pollution from a sunken fiberglass boat is so bad, then why suggest doing it?

Geoff54,
Two things at once:
1)Why don't people anchor in the lake areas of the Illinois river where it is fairly protected.
2) Out of curiosity is it possible to do deep water moorings in unprotected waters?

As far as the lake goes, I guess it is possible with a proper anchor. As for deep water mooring, I'm curious as to what would happen.

How to get a mooring out there? Get a big barrel on deck and fill it with concrete little by little, with a big hook or chain at the top and some rebar to hold it togehter. Then push it over the side when it is finished. The deck may need to have wooden supports under the barrel. Could also get a big barrel with a hatch on the top and fill it with concrete as it floats in the water. Then float it out to the location and sink it. Stainless steel chains would go inside the concrete.

The attachment to the mooring on the boat can be reinforced.

fascist! Why did you send me a friend request after all this? Were you trying to use the ignore feature instead?

PCP,
Of course no anchoring in the ice. Out of curiosity, if you had a strong mooring and a strong 200 meter long line to it out in water that is 30m deep, could you handle a storm? Or should I say: What would be required?

How about some technical numbers as to why thinks can't be done a certain way. "Impractical" doesn't tell me much. "The mooring would need to be able to hold half of the displacement of the boat" would.
I'd respond if I could figure out what you are saying :confused:
 
#13 ·
Yes steel, the friend request was accidental. I was replying from my phone.

I love how you call me a fascist, but didn't deny any of my statements.
You're a navigational hazard, to be avoided at all costs.
I love how you justify polluting, by claiming that you'll anchor near a sewage outflow.

"Hey, the municipal government is doing it, so it must be ok!"
 
#17 ·
Thanks for finding that. I had completely forgotten about it.

Anyway, lots of people today seem to have a problem separating the hypothetical from the real thing.

There seems to be an unusual amount of attack over this issue. Is there a hidden reason behind this, like marinas losing thousands of dollars?

The fascist comment refers to a political and social system that I am completely opposed to. If someone is a fascist, we will really never agree on anything. People who think like this often are very well versed in the law, and frequently end up using circular reasoning over common law and morality issues by judging the law by the law.

I saw that thread about my day really sucked. It's a shame he didn't act faster to save the boat. If he had put a hole in the side for a water pump, a large pump on another boat next to it would probably be enough to overcome the water leaking in through the hatch boards etc., and the boat could have been refloated as the tide came in.

Now out of curiosity, is it possible to anchor or moor a boat in unprotected waters? I know that question results in a lot of ifs, like how strong the mooring is, how long the line going to the sea floor is, how big the boat is, what kind of boat it is, how big of a storm could come, and how deep the water is.

So for instance, a small surfaced submarine with fully sealed ballast tanks that had a very strong mooring could be left out in any storm and never sink. That's about a seaworthy as you can get (as long as nobody is on it). Now of course a boat couldn't handle as much.

Say there was a 30' steel hulled and well sealed boat out in 100' of water depth. The mooring and 700' of chain can handle 5000 pounds of working load. The chain is directly attached to the hull and will not break. Would it survive a hurricane?

This is just a hypothetical question. I hope there won't be more name calling and personal attackers over it. It is just information. It doesn't hurt anyone. Of course, people who are pro gun control etc. often think otherwise about the sharing of information.

It's okay if nobody wants to answer. But are more personal attacks over it really necessary?
 
#19 ·
Steel,

To answer your question, it is possible to anchor pretty much anything pretty much anywhere. But the size and cost of the mooring may far exceed the value of the boat.

Assuming a typical 30' sailboat in the 15,000lbs range...
In a wind of 100mph (the minimum acceptable for hurricane anchorages)
Assuming concrete cubes

You would have a wind load of 7000lbs. In an unprotected anchorage you would need to double this to account for wave action (this is a guess, but seems reasonable). So we need 14,000lbs of holding power.

Concrete blocks have been tested, and a 2000lbs concrete cube has about 800lbs of holding power. So to meet our 14,000lbs holding power, we would need about 35,000lbs of concrete. Concrete runs about 145lbs/foot^2, so we need a 242cubic foot block, so a solid block that is 6.25'x6.25'x6.25 should work.


(1) numbers based on tests preformed (1995 and 2007) by BoatU.S. Foundation For Safety, MIT, Cruising World Magazine and Sarasota Sailing Squadron
 
#21 ·
I'm in Maryland. Have a beautiful Tartan 37 which I cannot live aboard here in two adjoining counties (Talbot and Dorchester) because it is illegal to live aboard. You are the reason. People with no clue buying a boat to live on because they think it's a free way to live. No it isn't, not if you are going to keep a boat seaworthy. And if not seaworthy, as others stated, your boat isn't in a vacuum. If your rode breaks (and I somehow don't have confidence in your anchoring ability) and you damage other boats or the boat sinks you'll be in deep dodo. Here ya go....buy a cheap camper and park it in Walmart parking lots...it's free and you can use the restroom to take sponge baths...
 
#22 · (Edited)
To the OP:

[EDIT: I just noticed that SF pointed you to the same thread... Great minds...

More of the same EDIT: The primary issue is not that we're concerned that Marinas will miss your money, nor that you would potentially loose you $300 POS. But, that you if you loose the vessel and walk away (and from what I have read, I am guessing that you would), you would be contributing to further restrictions on the rest of us.]

Some time ago there was a poster here who owned a '72 Pearson 35 in South Carolina, and spent some time fixing it up. I think that the vessel was given to him by his family, but I am not sure. Members here were eager to help the kid, as he seemed grateful for advise, and he put some of it to use.



At one point he posted a thread asking about how to make a mooring out of 500lbs of scrap lead, and was advised, repeatedly, to spend the money, and get a real mooring. Unfortunately, this is one post where he did not heed the advise given him.

A couple of months later, he posted that he had been anchored out in this "nice little creek where I figured that the boat was nice and safe," when a squall blew him ashore, and sank his boat. The boat had been anchored there for over 2 months, and was uninsured.



He initially tried to salvage the vessel, and received many offers for help, and much advise from the SailNet community. However, all of his attempts were unsuccessful, as the boat had filled with silt. Eventually, he simply walked away from the vessel.



Owners who do this make life more difficult for the rest of us, because it causes navigation hazards, and prompts communities to pass restrictions on anchoring. What started out as a sympathetic community, turned into a hazing of the kid, and he never returned to SailNet.

The members here would simply like to avoid having you repeat the story of S/V Distant Star.

You can read about it here; http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/51684-well-my-day-really-sucked.html
 
#23 ·
Why on earth would anyone want to own such a pos anyway ? really, just so you could tell someone you own a sailboat? if you aren't going to us it for a few years just wait a few years to buy one there will still be $300.00 pieces of s--- then. Or maybe you could buy a derelict and haul it off to uncle Bubba's farm for a year or two....three birds, one stone. You own a sail boat,(bragging rights included) you don't have to pay the fascist marina owners (inherently evil) and you get one more pos out of the water....win, win, win !
I guess I can't understand why someone would want to take on the liability.
 
#24 ·
We do have people doing exactly this in Maryland. You get a nasty POS taking up space and either sinking or breaking loose. Either way it is a danger to the rest of us and the "owners" are never good for the damages. Weems Creek has a few floating wrecks following this game plan. One $300 sailor ended up on the Naval Academy seawall afer Isabel and - oopsie - had no insurance or way to remove the boat. I knew people after the storm trying to chase down the owners of various POS boats that were in their yards or sometimes partly in their house!
 
#25 ·
fryewe and Stumble,

Thanks for the replies. It's the kind of information that I was wondering about. I enjoy thinking about a lot of things out of curiosity. I saw some videos on the Internet of boats in hurricanes and I wondered what kind of mooring arrangement they had. That was the basis for the unprotected waters question.

A mooring that must hold the displacement of the boat to handle a hurricane in unprotected waters is quite a lot!
 
#27 ·
Just out of curiosity, do you or have you ever owned or operated a boat? You sound like you know absolutely nothing about boats and even though you apparently monitor at least this one forum, you seem not to have absorbed any of the information available. You could not possibly have missed the multitude of anchoring, mooring and regulations threads regarding those things over the last few years, could you?
 
#28 ·
Another thing to consider for mooring a boat for any length of time, even just a few days, is how do you get off the boat? You have to land your dinghy somewhere without getting popped for trespassing.
Where I moor my boat is a designated anchorage, anyone can anchor there for free, but you can't land your dinghy without paying the City their seasonal mooring fee (which is cheap at $475 a year and they own and maintain the moorings and facilities).
Btw thats Muskegon, Mich on the east shore of Lake Michigan.
 
#29 ·
What will you do in the winter in central Illinois, assuming the rhode doesn't fail before the first cold snap?

Where will you get clean water?
How will you deal with your sewage?
How and where will you get ashore?


What will you do with this worthless liability when you inevitably give up?
 
#30 ·
Lol cut this guy a break. 3 years ago my first post were about taking a sailboat through the panama canal on a cargo ship so we all start somewhere.

Its funny to read the first page however haha. You have a steep learning curve my friend.

Get a sunfish for a few hundo and trailer it until you learn a bit more about sailing. And no anchoring in unprotected waters is NEVER a GOOD idea. Its only done as last resort.
 
#33 · (Edited)
The rule of thumb for anchor rode length should be covered in all basic boating classes, books, and presentations as a fundamental safety and seamanship issue.

In its simplest form, the rode should be about 5 to 10 times longer than than depth of the water in which you are anchored. Less rode is for shorter periods of anchoring in calmer water while you are on or close to the boat; more rode for less ideal conditions. (Different guides will argue about the exact ratio.)

Different types of anchors tend to do better in some conditions and worse in others; matching the anchor to the local bottom type and other situations can make a big difference. Which anchor is best? Ah, be sure to put on your flame-proof suit before asking this question in a gathering of sailors.

The depth used for figuring rode length this should also add the height of your boat's freeboard/how high your bow cleats or winch are above water line.

Sometimes you have to use less rode because of a tight anchorage.

Sometimes you can get away with somewhat less rode if you have an oversized anchor, heavy all-chain rode/extra weight attached, ideal bottom conditions, did a great job of setting the anchor, and have the latest super-premium high-tech anchor, and don't have stupid other boaters dragging their anchor over your anchor rode.

Or, if circumstances are nasty, you might need more and will want heavier, better, longer, more ground tackle and rode.

Having a "bullet-proof" connection of rode to boat is a big issue; your anchoring system is only as strong as its weakest link. Undersized cleats or bitts that aren't backed up properly (backing plates), sharp cleats or fairleads that can saw the rode, lack of snubbers, failure to "mouse" a shackle closed, lack of chafing gear, a wimpy swivel, etc., can spell death to your anchoring.

Reversing currents or action of wind against tide can be a problem for some anchors. Some boats travel around a lot/"hunt" at anchor; a riding sail can often help calm this. Boats that have lots of windage will be more likely to drag than those where excess stuff has been stripped away, particularly if a big blow is forecast.

A double anchor system can help in some conditions, such as dealing with tidal currents or in a tight anchorage.

Anchoring successfully is really several steps; picking an anchorage that has good protection, depth, bottom types, room, absence of hazards, etc.; then matching anchor and rode to the anchorage, communicating between helm and the person on the bow, lowering and setting the anchor properly, checking to see that the anchor is really set, setting up chafing gear and snubbers as needed, monitoring for dragging, keeping an eye on weather changes that may affect your anchorage, maintaining the chafing gear, making sure the rode isn't fouled around the bottom of your boat, etc.

All this is mostly about conventional anchoring; long-term moorings are another topic.
Anchoring for storms is sort of an ultimate challenge and is a severe test of anchoring skill and equipment.

"Your anchor drag may vary." There are quite a few ways to screw up anchoring.
 
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