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  #21  
Old 11-19-2013
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

I bring up the finances issue, not because they represent themselves as broke, but because they had enough money to not destroy property, steal, and trespass, yet they did it anyway and have no remorse for their actions.

For example, they felt it acceptable to break someone else's equipment to raise their mast and not pay $150 for someone to do it with a crane, but had no problem spending thousands on a new diesel?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the videos as well. I like their spirit of adventure, stories of the people they met, and stuff they experienced, but they aren't exactly a model for people to take after. There are many people here doing the same things they did, without damaging other people's property.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2013
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

I don't buy the comments that the use of the hoist and the boat ruined the message of Hold Fast. I think its a convenient way to explain that Moxie's obvious anti establishment message pisses you off. And if it did, you were probably so inclined to begin with and not the audience he is reaching.

The caretaker of the boat gave them permission to stay aboard. I've stayed in houses when I was a kid on as much. The guy who sold them the sailboat did have a vague connection to the owner of the house boat, he may have been his broker, and it was that guy ( the seller) who operated the hoist and instigated the whole mast raising thing. We are left to assume it was never made right, led to believe that the seller never cleared it with him. We assume the seller didn't think about the fact that Moxie was a rich internet guru making a film. That's film making. In other words, take that chapter with a grain of salt, its for the benefit of the millenials out there, street cred. Its not for middle aged establishment types.

But putting that aside, I think the message of Hold Fast is simply - look, you CAN do this. It is anti authority, anti establishment, go your own way. Thats part of why I love it, and why some hate it. I like the message to recycle a boat, sail in the ocean with little training. .... If you are smart. Of course. It was smart to put a new engine in the boat and the EPIRB . Smart. Those would have been two of my first purchases.

Hold Fast is sending the message that you ( poor unschooled young people) can set off for this adventure, don't be deterred, intimidated or scared off. The adventure is out there . And so, despite some sketchy details, a disgusting looking boat, and awful name.. despite these things I found the message of Hold Fast well worth it. It might speak to some poor kid out in Iowa who's only other possible adventure is akin to Breaking Bad. In that sense Hold Fast could save his life. And I think thats closer to Moxies intention.

I loved it.
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2013
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Of course. Everyone has.

The huge difference is that I knew it was wrong and did not broadcast it to everyone to show it off, which would have encouraged others. In fact, you did just about everything you could to keep it a secret.

I couldn't care less about these actors, its the message and example they set that I object to. I love the adventure on a shoestring, I object to the abuse of others rights in the process.
oh. i get you. it's ok to do stuff that is wrong, as long as you know it's wrong, as you do it, and you keep it a secret, after it's done. are you a politician?

i just think you are reading to much into it. assigning too much import to a small element. but, to each his own.
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Old 11-19-2013
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

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Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
But putting that aside, I think the message of Hold Fast is simply - look, you CAN do this. It is anti authority, anti establishment, go your own way. Thats part of why I love it, and why some hate it. I like the message to recycle a boat, sail in the ocean with little training. .... If you are smart. Of course. It was smart to put a new engine in the boat and the EPIRB . Smart. Those would have been two of my first purchases.

Hold Fast is sending the message that you ( poor unschooled young people) can set off for this adventure, don't be deterred, intimidated or scared off. The adventure is out there .

I loved it.
Well said. I think his point is that you don't need a brand new Jeanbleau-72b to go sailing. It appeals to the same romantic ideals we found as kids when we read Joshua Slocum or Huck Finn for the first time.
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

Ok. You've all convinced me to re-teach my kids their values. In their next adventure, I'm going to suggest they search you all out, help themselves to your things, break your things or do whatever else necessary to satisfy their urge for adventure. So far, they'v accomplished extraordinary things on their own, without needing to do so. They will find this easier.
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

That sounds like a plan.

Now I'm moving on.
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

As a young sailor i found the movie interesting, yes he may be independently wealthy now or even at the time but movies are theatrical works the main assertion of the movie was clearly advocating a seafaring lifestyle that was little more than subsistence. That idea has value, there is an importance in re establishing sailing as a pure sport for people who love the sea, as opposed to what it is turning into. Sailing predominantly today is dominated by rich white men who buy these massive beneteaus and hunters and catalinas which rarely ever leave the dock, they sail only on fair weather days and fill there yachts with every luxury and electronic and convenience. There is nothing wrong with that, however i am 20, I have owned 3 keelboats in my lifetime, i currently have had my contest 30 since i was 17, and there is some sort of animosity many sailors have towards younger sailors and towards cruisers, especially cruisers who do not have all sorts of luxury equipment and whose boats are not badly maintained but don't have furriers, or wind speed indicators or massive chart plotters, sub, sat phones, big screen tv's 6 burner ovens, pressure water, hot water, showers etc. While there may have been deceit and yes breaking and entering is never ok, This film at the very least established the legitimacy of subsistence cruising as opposed to luxury sailing. Is cruising while you are young and poor responsible, well not really, but doing it in a responsible way is key. In the way i do it it does not harm anyone, one could say I harm my own chances of attaining success by taking so many semesters off college but that in no way harms other people. I do not steal or break and enter and so while someone said it isn't responsible to cruise when you are young, they are right. but there is a way to do it such that you cause no harm to others. My boat is my only possession, i haven't bought new clothes in three years, all my money goes towards my boat that is clearly not in line with what society deems responsible but it in no way disadvantages other individuals.
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  #28  
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

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Originally Posted by duchess of montrose View Post
As a young sailor i found the movie interesting, yes he may be independently wealthy now or even at the time but movies are theatrical works the main assertion of the movie was clearly advocating a seafaring lifestyle that was little more than subsistence. That idea has value, there is an importance in re establishing sailing as a pure sport for people who love the sea, as opposed to what it is turning into. Sailing predominantly today is dominated by rich white men who buy these massive beneteaus and hunters and catalinas which rarely ever leave the dock, they sail only on fair weather days and fill there yachts with every luxury and electronic and convenience. There is nothing wrong with that, however i am 20, I have owned 3 keelboats in my lifetime, i currently have had my contest 30 since i was 17, and there is some sort of animosity many sailors have towards younger sailors and towards cruisers, especially cruisers who do not have all sorts of luxury equipment and whose boats are not badly maintained but don't have furriers, or wind speed indicators or massive chart plotters, sub, sat phones, big screen tv's 6 burner ovens, pressure water, hot water, showers etc. While there may have been deceit and yes breaking and entering is never ok, This film at the very least established the legitimacy of subsistence cruising as opposed to luxury sailing. Is cruising while you are young and poor responsible, well not really, but doing it in a responsible way is key. In the way i do it it does not harm anyone, one could say I harm my own chances of attaining success by taking so many semesters off college but that in no way harms other people. I do not steal or break and enter and so while someone said it isn't responsible to cruise when you are young, they are right. but there is a way to do it such that you cause no harm to others. My boat is my only possession, i haven't bought new clothes in three years, all my money goes towards my boat that is clearly not in line with what society deems responsible but it in no way disadvantages other individuals.
where are all the women like you!? you're perfect. do you have a twin sister, that lives in maryland, that i coukd meet?

one thing. i hadn't realized that people kept furriers on their sailboats. i wouldn't have thought hunting for furs was a big thing in the sailing world. of course, i guess it is a way to finance you trip.
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

Haha I'm male, My boats name is duchess of montrose don't worry you're not the first person to make that mistake. Funny thing though is no one else in my family is into sailing, my parents were social members of a yacht club when i was a kid, my grandfather though raced dinghies and for the most part he was who goat me into boats, i started sailing keelboats when i was 14 mostly, and haha i have the same problem finding young women into sailing actually none of the girls ive taken sailing seem to have enjoyed it, I guess society portrays yachting as some sort of luxurious passed-time and a lot of people my age both male and female ive sailed with have been vary dismayed to find that you actually have to do work. And that was supposed to say furlers not furriers that was autocorrect for ya.
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Re: This is hope! (3 young adults fix P30 and head out to sea)

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Originally Posted by duchess of montrose View Post
Haha I'm male, My boats name is duchess of montrose don't worry you're not the first person to make that mistake. Funny thing though is no one else in my family is into sailing, my parents were social members of a yacht club when i was a kid, my grandfather though raced dinghies and for the most part he was who goat me into boats, i started sailing keelboats when i was 14 mostly, and haha i have the same problem finding young women into sailing actually none of the girls ive taken sailing seem to have enjoyed it, I guess society portrays yachting as some sort of luxurious passed-time and a lot of people my age both male and female ive sailed with have been vary dismayed to find that you actually have to do work. And that was supposed to say furlers not furriers that was autocorrect for ya.
wow. do i feel silly. lol. that's interesting. i haven't met any sailor girls, yet. i keep hoping. however, all of the GFs that i introduced to sailing liked it.

"vary dismayed to find that you actually have to do work"

yeah. that's the state of our culture. the Gods forbid you have to put effort into something.

and here i thought that you were a sign of hope that there really are women, like that, out there. oh well, that's why i like women in their 20s: you can raise them to be the women you are looking for

i hope no women read that comment. there is already this nasty rumor that sailing is sexist
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