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Missing Boat Found- No Skipper

12K views 98 replies 29 participants last post by  quandryron 
#1 ·
#5 ·
peeing over the rail..unfortunately we all do it...
No we all do not pee over the side. What a stupid, unsafe thing to do! Even in Harbour at anchor, or at a marina peeing over the can be fatal with one slip and the bang on the head.

I hope this guy didn't die that useless and wasteful way.

But for anyone reading this please remember that peeing over the side is an absolute no-no.

Mark
 
#6 ·
That story makes me think of all the chances I took and got away with it...
This was obviously an experienced skipper on a big, well founded boat. And he's now in Davy Jones' locker with his boat bobbing above... :/
 
#13 ·
A Gatorade bottle has a more secure top - you can imagine what happens when a urinal takes a fall. And I'm pretty sure that wide mouth bottle will work for pretty much anyone.

If your bladder's too big, there's always the gallon Arizona Sweet Tea bottles. They work for truckers too...
 
#9 ·
What I find most disconcerting about this tale is that on what should have been a 15 hour sail (if memory serves) in normal conditions, between two islands, quite close to one of the busiest airports, and one of our largest military bases, no one found this boat until it was 1300 miles away. It's not like there are many yachts sailing west from Hawaii; it should have been pretty easy to spot. Down wind (westish), hum, shouldn't that be the direction the search should have taken? No Gulfstream here, folks; wind and current both run the same way, for the most part. And with notification that it was missing within 48 hours??????
Nothing probably would have saved the skipper, but still; 1300 miles unseen. Wow.
 
#14 ·
nothing like a warm pee bottle to keep you warm in cold weather!

btw guys Im not advocating peeing over the rail...especially when solo, but its very very common...as are most boats not having holding tanks

it completelty depends where your boat is and where you cruise and what regulations are in place

anyways...this thread was about a sad story, may he(the skipper) rest in peace

reminds me of the electron trimaran in the golden globe race that knoxton won back in the 60s one of the brits lost it and for all intents and purposes he could of been peing over the rail in his delusion and altered state...but we will never know that either will we?

cheers
 
#19 ·
His name was Donald Crowhurst, and he committed suicide, he did not fall over the side while peeing. He faked his round the world sail, staying in the SoAtlantic off Brazil, but his conscience got the better of him. He did develop a one time period Lat/Long navigation system that I used on my circumnavigation whenever possible. He left detailed records of his voyage and thoughts and his boat was found floating, undamaged. Book; The Strange Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst.
 
#18 ·
The mainland is NE of Oahu 2300 miles. To the west there is about 6000 miles of water.
I suppose a boat could float around out there a while without being seen .
Anyway, peeing off the side just ain't too bright of an idea wherever you are. I don't like washing the splatter off the boat either.
Kind like spittin snoose juice out the winda of the pickem up truck.
If it's too hazardous to stand or move around much maybe you could pee in a bucket with a pour spout and dump it down the cockpit drain and flush it afterward with sea water. Still kind of icky but better than swimming while your boat goes on it's merry way without you.
My condolences to the family.
 
#23 · (Edited)
The mainland is NE of Oahu 2300 miles. To the west there is about 6000 miles of water.
I suppose a boat could float around out there a while without being seen .
My condolences to the family.
It is a big freakin ocean out there:

from:Missing Kauai Sailor Turns Up Safe on Big island | Beyond Honolulu

"Missing Kauai Sailor Turns Up Safe on Big island
January 2, 2012
By Beyond Honolulu Staff
Share0Tweet1Share0Share0Share1In a very bizarre twist, a missing Kauai sailor who had gone missing last week after leaving Kauai headed for Oahu has turned up safe on the Big Island (Hawaii).

Just a couple of days after the Coast Guard suspended its search for the sailor, 66-year-old Ira Foreman of Seattle, Wash. - arrived at Honokohau Harbor on Hawaii island - two weeks late and nearly 100 miles off course but alive.

So, how does the coast guard put together a search that includes a massive four-day search for Foreman covering some 209,000 square miles and involved a MH-65 Dolphin helicopter, a HC-130 Hercules airplane, and two Navy P-3 Orion planes and come up with nothing? Interesting.

Here is how the current story is playing out. Foreman left Port Allen, Kauai, on the morning of Dec. 17 but failed to arrive at Keehi Lagoon as scheduled the next day. He was reported missing a week later.

Search and rescue officials at Coast Guard Sector Honolulu received word Saturday from Foreman's ex-wife that Foreman had contacted her via cell phone, telling her that he had been blown off course by strong winds but was never in any distress.

Officials were able to triangulate Foreman's location based on his call and an aircrew from an HC-130 Hercules plane from Barbers Point Air Station was able to spot a vessel matching the description of Foreman's 36-foot sailboard shortly after midnight. The crew, however, was not able to establish communication with the vessel.

The Coast Guard made contact with Foreman on his mobile phone around 8 a.m. Sunday and Foreman reported his location as 20 miles west of Kealekekua. He arrived at Honokohau Harbor around 3 p.m.

"We are eager to meet with Mr. Foreman to find some answers about this very challenging case," said Capt. Joanna Nunan, commander of Sector Honolulu, in a Coast Guard news release.

As of right now, the Coast Guard has not taken a statement or story from Foreman. I will say this, there seems to be more here than what is being told.

It should be interesting to see how this plays out, however, as of right now, Foreman is alive and well."

From:
http://www.beyondhonolulu.com/the-coast-guard-suspends-its-search-for-a-missing-kauai-sailor/

"The Coast Guard Suspends its Search for a Missing Kauai Sailor
December 29, 2011By Beyond Honolulu StaffShare0Tweet1Share0Share0Share1
Ira Foreman
The Coast Guard has decided to suspend its search for a missing sailor who mysteriously disappeared when he sailed from Kauai to Oahu earlier this month.

Ira Foreman, a sailor originally from Seattle, departed from Port Allen on Kauai Dec. 17. He was sailing a 36-foot sailboat named Arcturus and was supposed to reach Keehi Lagoon on Oahu the following day. His wife reported him overdue about a week later, late Saturday afternoon.

According to his wife, Foreman was originally sailing from American Samoa to Oahu, but happened to go off-course and ended up at Port Allen instead. He stayed aboard his sailboat at anchor for one day before departing for Oahu. That was the last anyone has seen or heard from him. It seems as though there have been a lot of missing persons reports from the ocean area around Hawaii lately.

The sailboat that Foreman was aboard is being described as having a white hull, white sails, no name on the transom, and four portholes on both sides of the cabin. Foreman reportedly had a cell phone, personal locator beacon, and VHF radio on board.

None of these apparently are helping the Coast Guard. They have searched and area of around 178,000 square miles continuously since Sunday, stretching about 600 miles west of Kauai, by Wednesday.

The search was finally called off Wednesday at 7:50 p.m., pending new information about Foreman's whereabouts, according to Coast Guard spokeswoman Angela Henderson.

Anyone with information on Foreman's whereabouts is urged to call Coast Guard Sector Honolulu at (808) 842-2600.

Not very often does this happen, especially with someone who has a personal locator on board their vessel"
 
#22 · (Edited)
It's interesting to me that Crowhurst and Teignmouth have been mentioned in 2 different posts over the past day. If I recall the book correctly, the author also speculated that he might have gone swimming on a calm day and the boat just got too far away before it picked up some wind. Based on his journal, though, his mind (which was brilliant) was going haywire and it didn't seem like he wanted to go back, but neither did Moitessier... It's easy to conjure up dozens of scenarios with no evidence and the person not around to finish the story. Best to enjoy it while you have it while reducing risks to the level you're comfortable with.
 
#29 ·
It's interesting to me that Cromwell and Teignmouth have been mentioned in 2 different posts over the past day. If I recall the book correctly, the author also speculated that he might have gone swimming on a calm day and the boat just got too far away before it picked up some wind. Based on his journal, though, his mind (which was brilliant) was going haywire and it didn't seem like he wanted to go back, but neither did Moitessier... It's easy to conjure up dozens of scenarios with no evidence and the person not around to finish the story. Best to enjoy it while you have it while reducing risks to the level you're comfortable with.
well said...much better put than my words...:)
 
#24 ·
this reminds me less of Crowhurst than of Jure Sterk, from the port of Piran, in Slovenia. His 30' sloop "LUNATIK" was found at sea by a research ship, Jure missing. A partial mystery, but likely he fell in and drowned while trying to clean off some bottom growth around the rudder. He was sailing around the world and was 3/4 of the way there:

Sail-World.com : Modern Sea Mysteries: Solving the mystery of Jure Sterk

I found this a poignant story, and felt by turns sad and sorry, then proud and not sorry, for Jure Sterk and how it ended for him.

May have been much the same for our poor fellow here, though on a much shorter voyage. Yet the boat, like a faithful dog waiting for its owner, waits on, drifting..
 
#31 ·
with knots every so often...makes it easier...

I once fell in off panama...untying my dinghy and YANKING(stupid)which was stowed on top of the cabinroof on my little h28, no space anywhere else

the line snapped in my hands and if it werent for the crew that was helping me take the boat up to the canal I would of been shark bait off the perlas islands!

my boat of course had no lifelines being all proper herreshoff and all! jajajaja
 
#38 ·
people fall overboard and die often, I have heard of many men peeing overboard falling in also A couple in lake ontario jumped off there boat to swim in a lul not realizing the boat was still slowly moving but was moving faster than they could swim, they ended up dying of hypothermia as the boat sailed away. A solo sailor should always be harnessed in.
 
#41 ·
what I was trying to say before...seems a lot of us need to get out more and experience more...(do not mean this to be condescending) as this is common knowleadge

peeing and falling overboard is the number one cause of death...or "lostness"
simply falling obverboard is next
and heart attacks a close 3rd(since most cruisers are middle aged to retired)
infections that are untreated too

but Im sure Im missing some other causes, they are all close statistcis wise...
during the vendee globes and such every other year or so they lose most often a foredeck guy...

its and an unwritten rule that solo sailors and crewed non stop sailors often agree to without actually written in a contract, basically that if you fall overboard its 90 percent certain you will not be recovered...

just like when flyin cloud was rounding cape horn back in the day, the human loss factor was part of the trip...always someone died...

times have changed SORT OF...:)
 
#39 ·
Probably going over the side is the more frequent cause of dead regarding sailors. I read about several guys that went over the side clipped to the boat and died before someone managed to pull them back, I read about several professional sailors being lost that way and about some incredible stories with an happy ending. Just two:

A sailor on a top solo regata (Figaro II ) went overboard and his boat is found sailing alone. They stopped the race and went all looking for him and in a very black night they managed to find him and recover him alive.

And the most incredible: A famous solo professional sailor (a woman) went overboard at night while sailing solo. Miracolously she had with her a waterproof mobile phone that he had bought some days before and also miraculously she could find a signal sufficient strong to make a call to her mother telling her what happened and roughly were she was. The mother alerted SAR that on the first light of morning was able to find her, still alive.

No, I have not invented the story:D
 
#40 ·
And the most incredible: A famous solo professional sailor (a woman) went overboard at night while sailing solo. Miracolously she had with her a waterproof mobile phone that he had bought some days before and also miraculously she could find a signal sufficient strong to make a call to her mother telling her what happened and roughly were she was. The mother alerted SAR that on the first light of morning was able to find her, still alive.

No, I have not invented the story:D
Here is arcticle:
Female solo sailor saved by mobile phone after falling overboard - Telegraph

"Female solo sailor saved by mobile phone after falling overboard
French solo sailing star Florence Arthaud fell off her boat during a toilet break but was saved from the Mediterranean waters by rescuers after she called her mother by mobile phone.

Ms Arthaud, alone on her 10-metre (33ft) yacht The Argade II when she fell overboard, managed to hold onto her phone Photo: GETTY6:55AM GMT 31 Oct 2011
Ms Arthaud, winner in 1990 of the Route du Rhum single-handed transatlantic sailing race, was located and rescued near the island of Corsica thanks to a headlamp and the GPS system on her phone.

A small wave hit the boat and knocked her overboard while she was taking a toilet break without her usual harness, she said.

"I quite simply fell into the water while preparing to take a pee," the 54-year-old told BFM television.

Ms Arthaud, alone on her 10-metre (33ft) yacht The Argade II when she fell overboard, managed to hold her phone, encased in a waterproof covering, above water and call her mother in Paris to raise the alarm. Her mother alerted a rescue team, which set off in search of the sailor.

Ms Arthaud, one of the most respected female sailors in the world, was sailing for her own pleasure when the incident occurred. She spent almost two hours in the water before being rescued, and was suffering from hypothermia."
 
#42 ·
Towing a knoted line may sound good, but just think about the fact your boat is doing 7 kn by the time you resurface most of that line has passed, if not already gone. You are now in the water possibly dressed and about to grab the line. Do you really think you could hold on and then pull yourself back aboard? could someone do the math there's a lot of forces involved.
 
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#46 ·
Probably could not hold on at 7 kn, but then again many times when on sail only, the boat will be going in the 3-4 knot range. At that speed, probably doable. And in some cases, like when swimming off the boat to clean the bottom, a few ropes floating in the water would seem to be a good idea.

The problem is not only holding onto the line (an athletic person could probably hold on at 7 knots), but being able to breath. At 7kn probably would not be able to get air due to your "bow wave".
 
#44 ·
As we're talking about peeing over the rail, everyone really must have one of these, if you're going to be solo or not in a position to go below. They work very easily, whether seated or standing, they seal tightly and, as you see, have a female adapter.

I've used them on long aircraft shuttles. Being able to pee, while seated in the cockpit, is more difficult than at the helm of the boat.

20 years ago, I was on a solo cross country trip and tried peeing in a bottle. My leg starts to feel warm and I realize its been dripping down my pants! :eek: I think there is no way I can climb out of the cockpit in a hour, with a massive and obvious wet leg, so I remove my pants and hang them in front of a vent to dry. All I can think of for the next hour is how the accident report would read, if something happened and I was found without my pants on. :laugher

 
#45 ·
Well, we went from "everybody" does it, to "many" do it, to "some." Of course, if you are tied to the boat in some way that you cannot fall overboard, then peeing off the side, or over the transom, is a whole different matter. Those who do it without first insuring that they are well secured to the boat--at least, if the boat is moving, and especially if they are alone--are simply morons.

Like someone else said, I certainly hope that the missing captain, who is the subject of this thread, didn't die that stupidly and pointlessly.
 
#47 ·
I think the Sail Delmarva book recommends the old "cut a hole in the plastic milk jug, tie a line to the handle" trick for single handed sailors. I have done this since I started and it works great. Just throw it overboard and let it drag for a moment, then bring it back.
To get back to the subject, when I read of stories like this, I always have that nagging suspicion that maybe it was a suicide made to look like an accident. I don't know how that is relevant to this case, I'm just saying.
 
#50 ·
I read a stat years ago that the vast majority (60%-70%) of male drowning victims are found with their flies open.
 
#56 ·
You can do an experiment to realize just how little you can hang onto with your bare hands.

Put a 10 year old on an inner tube with a rope tied to it, hold the rope with your hands and start the boat moving.

Caution - wear gloves :)

No-one is going to drag themself back to their boat along a line trailing behind if the boat is moving more than a couple or three knots.
 
#58 ·
The rope thing would be a great idea for the show Mythbusters to explore. I always wondered about it.
I tie myself when sailing alone, even when I sail on the Pamlico Sound. The tiller thing sounds like a good idea but it could get complicated with windvane or autopilot setup used when singlehanding offshore.
 
#60 ·
The rope thing would be a great idea for the show Mythbusters to explore. I always wondered about it.
Good idea.. might be interesting to see how they tackle it. :)

I tie myself when sailing alone, even when I sail on the Pamlico Sound. The tiller thing sounds like a good idea but it could get complicated with windvane or autopilot setup used when singlehanding offshore.
Not really.. but it does depend upon the gear you're using. The plan is to get the line to trip whatever it needs to to force an uncontrolled tack so you get a chance to swim/pull yourself back to the boat, work your way alongside and somehow get on board - which brings up the whole lifelines/no lifelines argument again.

I wonder if anyone's tried using the "tack" button on their a/p remote whilst not actually in the boat?..
 
#63 ·
While I don't think they are necessary for being at the helm, I thought I would also introduce you all to the idea of the condom catheter. Just like it sounds, its a condom with a tube off the end that goes to a bag strapped to you leg. Easily available in med supply stores. Available as disposable or more sturdy washable versions.

We used them for long, typically decompression diving. Naturally, you can't unzip underwater. Some would use them in the cockpit, but only in specific circumstances.

One might consider the idea, if you have a long watch with layers of insulation and overall foulies. Actually, it takes some minor psychological mastery to just start peeing in your pants. :)
 
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