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Google Glass and it's effect on sailing

14K views 127 replies 40 participants last post by  hellosailor 
#1 · (Edited)
Unless you've been out at sea for a few years, you know that Google Glass is coming.

Here is an interesting Wired Magazine article. The translation with automatic overlay is amazing and makes you wonder if you'll need a chart plotter in the future when it's already built into your eye glasses. (This from a man who uses his Droid as a chart plotter.). And not even talking about how votive commands could be integrated.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/11/google-glass-sdk/

Regards,
Brad
 
#44 ·
Thanks for the test-drive. Multihanded racing crews could use them, I agree. I think some of the "resistance" you are seeing is from single- or short-handed recreational (read: not officially-sanctioned racing) sailors. Not so much against the technology itself, as having no use for it in their day-to-day sailing.

Coming into a strange harbor at night or in fog, sure,- I'll take all the help I can get. Gunkholing through the 'Glades & Keys - not so much. Though 10,000 people may have been there before, if I am exploring some little tidal creek for the first time, what I see, hear, smell and discover are new *to me* -- I do not want to know about the old Calusa shell mound 1/4 mile upstream from the next bend, I want to discover it for myself.

I trust the user can select how much and how often info is displayed. As long as there's an "OFF" switch, fine;- start going "Max Headroom" on us and there'll be trouble. :)

Haha Yea, well you see the bottle is made of generation 3 Corning Gorilla Glass and the cork is space age foam... And you better believe that letter in the bottle is on a flexible-inkscreen. Is that better?
I like it! :)
All that is rather a mouthful,- and the short form does sound better.
 
#45 · (Edited)
I love technology and frequently use my iPad/iPhone for navigation and other functions while aboard, but I'm not sure I want a lens with digital "stuff" in between me and the big blue yonder. I like the wind in my eyes and an unobstructed/unaltered view of the water around me. That's part of sailing's allure.

I can just imagine watching a regatta and seeing all the skippers wearing their Google Glass...reminding me of the people in the malls who walk around with a bluetooth headset on.
 
#50 ·
I can just imagine watching a regatta and seeing all the skippers wearing their Google Glass...reminding me of the people in the malls who walk around with a bluetooth headset on.
My first thought was seeing skippers with the Bluetooth headset on one side and Google Glass on the other, maybe they could offer a combined headset......:)

Wouldn't that be great, you could be safely navigating around the race course and talking to your stock broker all at the same time, without ever having to take your hands off the helm.......multitasking yeah! :rolleyes:
 
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#49 ·
I could see using them when going into an unfamiliar place. Basically have the active depth readings overlaid on the chart. The only problem is visual overload. You would have teach yourself to see past and possibly ignore the google glass image. The other good thing would be as you are approaching the marina you could enquire where the best Margarita is...;)
 
#54 ·
brad, if you think gglass will just be a HUD or extra data source, you're missing the boat. As the virtual reality apps and overlays come out for these things, a whole new world opens up. Before there was a Google, folks were talking about using these for aircraft maintenance, i.e. look at an engine and the schematics, part numbers, fault overlays, all come up and tell the mechanic what has been serviced, what needs service, what tools to grab, etc.

Now take that to sailing. Look at your sail, which of course has draft strips on it. OLD America's Cup technology shoots the video of those stripes to a computer, where they are compared with optimal stripe position to match up the sail draft. You gglasses will tell you "trim the ----haul, dummy!" and overlay the stripes in red to indicate wrong position, green to indicate properly trimmed. Or whatever.

Seen the graphics on the America's Cup this year? All the funny current arrows and "smoke" in and on the water? That's all the stuff that gglasses can and will do, assuming you want to pay for it.

Oh, and when you glance down at your engine, or the breaker panel? That's right, they'll nag you to change the oil and check the fuel and water tanks, too.

This stuff has the potential to be Jiminy Cricket on your shoulder. Except, of course, Google is behind it and Google are a flock of irresponsible schoolboys who never quite bother finishing any project, much less correcting the flaws that thousands of customers report year after year. On this one, I might hold out for the Apple iEye implementation, or their marine grade iAyeEye, although of course, that will only work if you buy an iBoat to use with it. <WEG>
 
#56 · (Edited)
I don't blame Google for not crafting an app. They certainly WILL craft apps of some kind, the same way that they've crafted, ergh, hacked together, Google Maps. Or did you mean, not crafting the apps they've kludged? I do blame them for not finely crafting those products they've released. The actual art of craftsmanship seems to be well beyond their abilities.

In case you haven't noticed, Google Maps is an app, and every iteration grows better at directing Google "members" to Google advertisers, which better monetizes the "free" app to make profits for Google.

They *will* surely monetize gglasses the same way.

For instance, when you pan past your engine, and the gglasses flash to remind you "Time to change the oil!" you'll be offered a discrete list of Google advertisers who have paid (outbid each other, too) for the words "OIL CHANGE" and when you wink at one of them, you'll be given the chance to buy oil. And, Google will get paid for serving the ad to you.

Or...Maybe not. Maybe Amazon is offering you free movies, in exchange for rooting your gglasses so that they can take you to the Amazon Store instead. Note that Google also provides a cell phone OS, and Google sets the terms that allow it to be locked down in various ways by various vendors, excluding as they please.

I only mentioned what a couple of companies can do. I made no judgments on how or whether any of them could or would go into the application business, but with the exclusive AppleOS and the exclusive Apple Store sanction, and Apple's express dictates as to what may or may not be offered (and let's not forget, Apple Maps, which is an application from Apple) who knows where these things will go?

The phrase "war" comes to mind. Virtual reality will provide the option to monetize everything you see and say, much more so and much more granularly than anything we've seen yet.

Look, up at the horizon! Land ho! And the marina ads and prices will be flashing in the corner of your eye, while you're still a half hour out. If your icebox is low, the grocery store may even have a launch and rental car waiting for you, along with a discount on dinner reservations.

Yes, it IS going to get that intimate and intrusive, it is only a matter of when, not if. And someone is going to monetize every step of it. Which could be a good thing, or a bad thing. Regardless of who is behind it.
 
#59 ·
I disagree with some of the opinion expressed, but that's neither here nor there. I will address something that is factually incorrect though...

Note that Google also provides a cell phone OS, and Google sets the terms that allow it to be locked down in various ways by various vendors, excluding as they please.
Google open-sourced their Android platform in a way that prevents no vendor at all from customising it how they wish, by using the Apache license terms. There is nothing in those terms allowing Google to exclude vendors they don't like.

The only "terms" they set extra conditions on are on what must be available if the vendor wants to use Google's trademarks. I can (and have) downloaded, customised, and used the Android OS for a custom project, legally and without once needing to go to Google for permission. It's not setup that way.

Does Google want to monetize their efforts? Sure. They do that by providing convenient built-in services to the platform so that vendors don't have to do it themselves. If the vendor wants to exclude Google from making money from Android, they can and have done so already - just look at what Amazon did with Kindle.
 
#57 · (Edited)
hello sailor very well put!

just to add to that line of thinking look at how ads on your computer pop up based on your ip location...when I travel it changes based on what I do and search based on that current location...

I have political ads poping up on sailnet from different parties of el salvador...Im sure you guys get ads that pertain to your area

cant imagine how it would feel like to have all that bombardment of PAID publicity as an AID to navigation...its all money with a little aid dressed up as gglasses or whatever they want to call it
 
#60 ·
cant imagine how it would feel like to have all that bombardment of PAID publicity as an AID to navigation...its all money with a little aid dressed up as gglasses or whatever they want to call it
You mean you cannot stand the advertising used to support the free services you are taking advantage of? What a burden! I suggest if you ever get Google Glass, you pay for the software you want ad-free then ;)

Google Glass is just a display/interface technology. That's it. I'd understand all the anxiety if Raymarine had set a precedent for popping up advertising in their bought and paid for chart-plotters. I even have the Australian NAVIONICS charts on my stock-standard Android tablet. It doesn't pop-up any advertising whilst using it.

Why is it people think that adding a display attached to glasses is going to suddenly make these people embed advertising in applications they don't now? Serious question.
 
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#58 ·
We'll have one app that superimposes buoys and daymarks on the water, even in heavy fog. With realtime updates of course. And another that grabs the wx and your choice of predictions, to tell you what's coming up ahead and, of course, reminding you (you did buy the polar integration option, didn't you?) when it is time to reef the sails.

Fantasy? No more than "You'll have your exact position and a hemisphere of charts, all in real time, in a thing the size of a paperback book" would have sounded to Thor Heyrdahl.
 
#61 · (Edited)
Bent-
Google licenses each version of Android according to a license agreement that is posted on the web when the OS is made available. Each vendor locks down their phone in various ways, i.e. if you buy an AT&T or a Verizon there are some apps that are on it which cannot be removed or disabled without rooting the phone, which some phone makers make damn near impossible. Unless you buy a "developers edition" you're buying a locked and modified OS, and Google is quite happy with this, no matter what they say.

There are also some interesting comments in some of the Android forums questioning why virtually all of the Android phones on the US market have been modified, by removing some of the standard Android functions, to make call recording virtually inmpossible. Removing standard functions that way is supposedly a violation that terminates the license to use the OS, and no one seems to know how or why it is being done in the US market and only in the US market. But, it is being done. Google of course has no comment on the matter, and no way to ask about it unless you mail them a letter.

They're also less than transparent about other policy matters. If you want to back up your Google Contacts so you can use them offline on a PC? There's no mention of how to do that. But if you discuss that topic on gmail accounts, you'll mysteriously get a message inviting you to use Google TakeAway (TakeOut? whatever they are calling it) which allows for local archiving of all your Google online data, usually the next day!

Of course you'd never need to store your contacts locally on a PC...but I found the online contacts were not available for a while the other day, the page could not be reached.

The "do no evil" guys have their own secret agendas. Ignore the man behind the curtain, at your own peril.

"Google Glass is just a display/interface technology."
More accurate to say it is ONE VENDOR'S IMPLEMENTATION of that technology, and that one vendor has a reputation for monetizing the hell out of everything they offer. If they don't monetize this one, it can only mean ...no wait, it can't happen that way. If Mother Teresa and Saint George physically bound and gagged Sergei and beat him with rubber truncheons, he'd still find a way to monetize it.
 
#65 ·
Google licenses each version of Android according to a license agreement that is posted on the web when the OS is made available.
Yes, and that license is the standard open-source Apache license. Amazon used the Android OS, stripped out all the Google apps they didn't want, added their own in, and not only was it legal but Google said that the freedom for others to do with the OS what they wanted was precisely why they made it open-source in the first place.

I develop apps on the platform for a living, both for their monetised PlayStore and for projects Google will not (& cannot) make money from ever. It's not like I'm new to this subject. ;)

Each vendor locks down their phone in various ways...
So you have a problem with the actions of phone vendors, not Google.

Removing standard functions that way is supposedly a violation that terminates the license to use the OS, and no one seems to know how or why it is being done in the US market and only in the US market. But, it is being done. Google of course has no comment on the matter, and no way to ask about it unless you mail them a letter.
I suggest you look into the license again. The Apache license in no way prohibits people from changing or removing functionality. The ability to alter it any way you want by definition includes removing things you don't want. In giving everyone that freedom, it includes giving that freedom to vendors who want to make more money from their phones.

Just as one shouldn't mistake what Compaq, Dell, or Hewlett Packard package into their computers for being Microsoft's responsibility, one shouldn't be blaming Google for the fact the Verizon, Sony, etc package things onto their phones.

They're also less than transparent about other policy matters. If you want to back up your Google Contacts so you can use them offline on a PC? There's no mention of how to do that.
No mention is not the same as not being able to or, as you are implying, being forbidden from doing so for free. More importantly, Google cannot tell you how to do this on all phones because vendors can (& do) add their own contacts management applications to the device.

When the service/application is purely Google's (such as GMail), they freely provide the information you desire. When the service/application is from a different vendor, it's up to them (not Google) to provide the information. I have a variety of devices on my desk here and the only ones that have the exact same Contacts application are the ones from the same phone vendor.

Oh yeah, and the devices that Google itself makes/markets directly? They clearly tell you how to import, export, and share your contacts from them :)

But if you discuss that topic on gmail accounts, you'll mysteriously get a message inviting you to use Google TakeAway (TakeOut? whatever they are calling it) which allows for local archiving of all your Google online data, usually the next day!
You mean the free services that you were using were searched in accordance to the license agreement you voluntarily accepted in order to use them? Shock! :eek:

Of course you'd never need to store your contacts locally on a PC...but I found the online contacts were not available for a while the other day, the page could not be reached.
See my link earlier. If the contacts were stored solely in Google's GMail database or are on a device Google makes/markets - you have access to them. If they are stored in some other vendor's application, you might want to complain to them about it... or just use one of the hundreds of free apps that can get it from the phone for you.

The "do no evil" guys have their own secret agendas. Ignore the man behind the curtain, at your own peril.
Absolutely. Of course, just because you believe someone to have a particular secret agenda doesn't mean they have it either.

More accurate to say it is ONE VENDOR'S IMPLEMENTATION of that technology, and that one vendor has a reputation for monetizing the hell out of everything they offer.
Yup, and that vendor has released a few devices now that don't popup advertisements in the middle of using applications you paid for. I use the NAVIONICS chart app on the Google Nexus. Guess what hasn't happened once in the time I've been using it? That's right, no pop-up advertisements. :)

If they don't monetize this one, it can only mean ...no wait, it can't happen that way. If Mother Teresa and Saint George physically bound and gagged Sergei and beat him with rubber truncheons, he'd still find a way to monetize it.
You know how most companies monetize devices they sell? They make you pay for them at the time of purchase. It's how Google monetizes their existing devices (though they do hope for, though cannot force, your use their monetized services). Do you think there is a chance they might do so with new ones... you know, just to shake things up? :laugher

I'm not saying Google are making Glass devices for the good of mankind or that they don't expect that selling it will drive people to use the services that they DO advertise through. What I'm saying is that the advertising that pays for the free services you use is not a compulsory aspect of using Glass itself anymore than it is compulsory to see advertising on your PC just because you have an Internet connection.

If you choose to use free services then, yeah, you'll probably get advertising as a consequence. If, like I have with NAVIONICS charts, you choose to use a purchased product, Google isn't going to be overlaying their advertising on that paid-for app. They don't now and, to my knowledge, I haven't seen an Android device that does.

The open-source Android OS for Glass is already available for folks to play with. Just like the open-source alternatives to the vendor Android distributions, there will be free versions for Glass as well. :)
 
#62 ·
How can anyone be opposed to having this technology available? No one is going to make you wear or even buy these glasses if you don't want them. But We live in an awesome age in an awesome civilization. I would love to be able to look at a port and have a bunch of ads pop up telling me what there is to do there. Where can I catch the game? Any nice romantic spot to take my lady? Where is the closest grocery store? Very cool. Raw bar happy hour? Let's go.

And, again, the Navionics android charts are the coolest thing. For a few bucks, I can have US and Canada. This is exactly what we want to happen to sailing to make it affordable for everyone. Just like fiberglass did.

Google maps is the best value of any app I have. A really good product for free. Who can complain about that? If you don't like it, but something else.

Google deserves the money they make. How about this. I can find out anything I ever wanted to know about anything in just a few seconds. No Dewey decimal system, no card catalog, nothing. Just great information. Or, I can go to one of their other products, Youtube, and find out how to do just about anything worth doing. What is not to like?
 
#64 · (Edited)
How can anyone be opposed to having this technology available? No one is going to make you wear or even buy these glasses if you don't want them. But We live in an awesome age in an awesome civilization. I would love to be able to look at a port and have a bunch of ads pop up telling me what there is to do there. Where can I catch the game? Any nice romantic spot to take my lady? Where is the closest grocery store? Very cool. Raw bar happy hour? Let's go.

And, again, the Navionics android charts are the coolest thing. For a few bucks, I can have US and Canada. This is exactly what we want to happen to sailing to make it affordable for everyone. Just like fiberglass did.

Google maps is the best value of any app I have. A really good product for free. Who can complain about that? If you don't like it, but something else.

Google deserves the money they make. How about this. I can find out anything I ever wanted to know about anything in just a few seconds. No Dewey decimal system, no card catalog, nothing. Just great information. Or, I can go to one of their other products, Youtube, and find out how to do just about anything worth doing. What is not to like?
funny how I can completely agree with this 100 percent no questions asked

I guess my better argument would be that if I had a choice I would love to always explore and do things in a more traditional manner...riding a bike or motorcycle or sailing...you know even turn off the vhf and simply be on the lookout

but if I had the choice and it was viable and economical and just an aid..I wouldny mind coming into port and searching for a nice tapas bar or wine bar to settle into without all the aggravation of looking for parking or buses etc...

especially if I were constrained by time...

I should see the positives more I guess

carry on!:D

oh but there is this...just to ruffle some feathers...the price you pay for googling stuff while free is that people who want to know what you are doing and searching know EVERYTHING...so while free its naive to think it doesnt come at a certain price...ignoring this is your easiest option! jajaja
 
#66 ·
Now, honestly, while I do love to chat about topics like this (it's my bread and butter after all), I think we can leave it in this thread as agreeing to disagree on Google's future decisions.

If you want to continue the discussion via PM (leaving this thread to folks that couldn't care less about Android, licenses, and vendor contracts), I'm more than happy to, but I'm not going into depth (again) on the subject here.
 
#69 ·
"So you have a problem with the actions of phone vendors, not Google. "
No, I'm talking about the android licenses, not the Apache license. Google is actually obligated to terminate the licenses of the violators, or under federal law they are considered to have abandoned the license and then no one has to follow it at all. That's the way these things go.
Since the vendors (cellcos) are playing coy and claiming they didn't remove the code, and the phone makers claim they didn't remove it either...It should fall upon Google to terminate the licenses in order to stop the coy games. Which incidentally make life harder for developers like you, when the OS is secretly crippled by vendors.

Not enforcing license terms is just plain sloppy, if not stupid. Look at the Samsung/Apple suits and others, and ask yourself, what corporation really wants to see their licenses voided and given freely to the competition? It is a sign that no one is paying attention to the details.

Last year there was a nooze bit about the town of Sunrise, Florida. W/NW of Fort Liquordale and home to a major league sports stadium. Apparently Google Maps was sending people to Tampa (4 hours away) when they asked for directions to Sunrise, and the mayor of Sunrise claimed he had been trying to get that corrected for TWO YEARS but no one at Google would respond.

No one harmed? Granted it takes a whole other kind of fool to not notice there's something wrong with those directions, and it is arguably better than the folks who supposedly perished in the Australian desert from the Apple Maps errors, but still? Two years, and there's no one being paid to just answer the phone or email?

Oink oink? Or just schoolboy dumb? No one at Google is minding the wheel. Even take a look at Google Calendar, an application that is part of the Android OS package. Did anyone at Google ever look at the grandfather of all PIMs? The Palm Desktop used on the Palm Treo, which started this all?

On a Treo, I can set a recurring appointment for every 3 weeks. On Google Calendar? Nope. I can't set a recurring appointment for every 3 weeks, or 21 days. After all these years, there's just no option. A ten year obsolete OS beats them, hands down. wtf? Would that really be a major coding job? Could learning history, learning the competition?

Sure, Google has earned every penny they've made. Sure, they're geniuses. And as the folks at child welfare would say, they are also "Persons In Need of Supervision."

Adult supervision.

Palm pissed away a market leadership. Blackberry did the same. Google? Yeah, there's a long list of corporations that haven't lasted very long, and juggernauts aren't exempt from that list.
 
#71 ·
No, I'm talking about the android licenses, not the Apache license. Google is actually obligated to terminate the licenses of the violators, or under federal law they are considered to have abandoned the license and then no one has to follow it at all. That's the way these things go.
Um, no. Just no. That's simply wrong on the facts.

If you want to go into detail about this, we can take it to Off-Topic or PM (depending on how public you want/need the discussion), but let's not bog down a thread about a device & it's (potential) use in sailing with a completely non-sailing-related debate about the difference between contracts & licenses, the legal doctrine of laches, and how Android is distributed. We can also bring all your other non-sailing related gripes about Google over too if you need to go over them :)
 
#70 ·
Couple of days ago I replied to this thread in a negative way and I apologize for that . Technology is a wonderful thing , and of coarse we do with it want we want . A lot of people here have been making some really good points , like sail shape . Google Glass I'm sure will be a hit with the racing types as long as it will be legal, and will eventually trickle down to the cruisers. I wonder what they are saying over at Sailing Anarchy . Their motto is Sailing Anarchy Where The Statusque Blows .
 
#76 ·
You do realise that there are cheaper, more inconspicuous, and easily available cameras for this already right? What's more likely to arouse your suspicions walking into a restroom? This guy?

or this one (with this in his shirt)?


Peepers don't want you to see the camera... making Google Glass a pretty bad option for them.
 
#79 ·
bow chika wow wow

you just know at some point in time people are going be walking down the street watching full on porn like nothing then asking for a latte at the coffee shop while talking about the market etc whike in the corner of their eye all sorts of stuff is going on that would normally overload your senses to the max

but since we will be so "evolutioned" by then multitasking like this will be so easy nobody will even care

this reminds me of the funny sketch of conan obriens old show

"in the year 2000" where all sorts of ridiculous inventions, theories and scenarios where brought up to make people laugh...the sad part is so many of the things are becoming true

tis life
 
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#81 ·
Marketing.

Googleglass is expensive. People who buy gglass have deep pockets. We here at Acme Widgets want to pick those pockets. Popups generate sales. Therefore, popups on gglass.

...unless you subscribe to the special-edition ad-free app, only $19.99 per month. :)
 
#82 ·
Googleglass is expensive. People who buy gglass have deep pockets. We here at Acme Widgets want to pick those pockets. Popups generate sales. Therefore, popups on gglass.

...unless you subscribe to the special-edition ad-free app, only $19.99 per month. :)
I still don't get it.

iPads are also expensive, but Navionics has never given me a popup and purchasing it was a one-time cost, not $19.99 per month.

A lot of people don't seem to understand the difference between free apps and pay apps. If you're using an app or website for free, then you're not the consumer, you're the product. If it's free then you should expect popups and marketing and distractions.

If it's a pay app, then you are the consumer and it is reasonable to expect to be free of marketing. None of the sailing apps I've purchased blast me with marketing or popups. I expect it will be the same for any apps purchased on Google Glass.
 
#83 ·
I suspect some of us are just having a little luddite fun. I wish I could find a cartoon I saw years ago. The gist of it goes like this:

Airliner cockpit, interior view from behind pilots, we see out the windshield they are on final approach & nearing the ground; both pilots are staring, horrified, at the instrument panel displaying this message:

"Your trial period of 'Glass Cockpit, Mk IV' has expired. To continue using this software suite, please enter your Customer I.D. code and credit card information. Thank you for using 'Glass Cockpit'.
Have a nice day."
 
#88 ·
I posted something to that effect a few pages back and have seen it happen, however keeping the fun in this thread Ill let it pass... jajajaja

over reliance on anything is a recipe for disaster...as sailors we should have redundant and alternate systems to help us when we need it...
 
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#89 ·
over reliance on anything is a recipe for disaster...as sailors we should have redundant and alternate systems to help us when we need it...
I agree. I imagine anyone relying solely on Google Glass is going to be considered as foolish as those that rely solely on a chart-plotter mounted on their boat.

That some idiots will rely too much on a tool doesn't make the tool bad for the task. Just because one shouldn't use a hammer for every job around the home doesn't mean it hasn't a place in the toolbox. Chart plotters are very useful, Glass could be as well (if way too expensive for me to give them a whirl in that role!). :)
 
#90 ·
bent I think that sums up my opinion and thoughts on the matter too, almost to the T...

mechanics and engine builders always say there is a tool for every job and I agree, the same applies to systems on a boat to a lesser extent if you will...

in the end we just need to be ALERT, on the lookout and always prepared for the worst case scenario...

if that means having gglass as a backup or something else as a backup to gglass then I think you are fine...and wish you happy sailing...

if your some dufus with just an iphone no vhf, or gps, or horn, or signal or nav lights and expect your iphone will do everything for you including wipe your ass that is where I draw the line and say no...you are wrong!

cheers to all

christian
 
#91 ·
Bentsailor said:
Chart plotters are very useful, Glass could be as well (if way too expensive for me to give them a whirl in that role!). :)
Maybe sailnetters should volunteer to beta-test gglass sailing apps for Google. :)
 
#92 ·
Some POV footage of a family sailing, dolphins off the port bow, &/or racing downwind with the chute up. Overlay that with basic wind/compass info from the boats NMEA feed shown neatly in the display. I could see Google marketing that in their advertising. Not for us mind you, but just due to the cool factor it would add to the perceived "utility" of Glass.

If I thought it stood a snowflake's chance in hell of being approved, I'd be all over that! :)
 
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