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sailnaway 11-28-2004 07:46 PM

And Freedom For All
 
I hesitate to post such a thread because I do not want to be marked as some radical dooms day evangalist on a quest to see if I can get a rise. I am only hopeful that in the future none of us will have to look back and say I remember this guy talking about this stuff but never dreamed it would happen.I feel that we the people boaters and live aboard left overs of another life need to ban togather keep the only real freedom left on this planet free for all who ply the seas..We are being systematicly hunted down and eleminated. The world we live in does not want you to live aboard or to have this much freedom sailing the seas we are expected to be where they (____________) fill in the blank,can drive to your door scoop you up and haul your butt off to the pound like a dog off his leash.Even here on the message boards allot of the people hate us we are not the condo dwellers with an attached dock who also belong to the yacht club crowd. We are like bikers and some of us are bikers,live aboard''s. I gave my life of my own choice to my country (USA)to use to defend it to the death if need be. Freedom to move about this country and to live as you please were some of the things I was willing to die for like my father and his father on down the line. We the people must draw the line on all this parinoid homeland security crap.
If we become complacent about this soon they will tell us what day you can sail on and where you may go. I for one will never allow this to happen on my watch.I was told by a Florida Fish and Game Nazi this summer that because my boat was documented it was not legal in Florida and that Uncle Sam issued regestration numbers for every boat the VIN I guess he meant so that the government he refered to as BIG BROTHER his exact words need to know where you are and why you are going to that place and if you are in another state you need to report in to the local Nazi post. The water Nazi then issued us a warning that we were to find a dock and go and regester our vessel by mail, back in Louisiana or in Florida so that we had numbers and a valid 2004 sticker and that we should not navigate the waters of the State of Florida with out it. I could see that it was not to my best intrest to argue with this idiot who was hired to cary out the law to the letter his letter anyway.We sailed away mad as hell that the quiet little port of Venius Florida had such a Nazi running the water way,s on a saturday morning at six oclock. He also ordered me to drop my anchor back down after. I had just hauled it by hand, a hundres feet of 5/8" line and 50''of chain and the plow not bad for a recovering open heart patient but twice in one hour is a bit much.I get very fired up about this and any thing that takes away any freedom from ........WE THE PEOPLE.........

SailorMitch 11-29-2004 03:27 AM

And Freedom For All
 
Sailnaway -- Sounds like you need to move to Pine Island and hook up with BigRed56 (also known as the Pirate of Pine Island, and well known thorn in the side to the local establishment.) You out there, POPI?

Sailmc 11-29-2004 03:35 AM

And Freedom For All
 
Sailnaway,
I don''t like the water Nazis any better than you do but I suspect your encounter had little to do with freedom and much to do with sales tax. If I understand you correctly your boat is documented but not registered in any state. I think most if not all states require registration for the purpose of collecting sales tax. If you intended to stay long term in Florida but did not register and therefore did not pay sales tax then Florida wants their piece. This has been the case for many years.

sailnaway 11-29-2004 02:01 PM

And Freedom For All
 
Sailmc
I wish that was the case but it was not. You would have had to have been where we sat and listened to this guy spout law.

soaringwind3 11-30-2004 04:26 PM

And Freedom For All
 
Hi Sailnaway, I thought that as long as you had documentation you were ok. We got boarded by the Nazis in the Gulf but they were the CG not fish and game, they checked our paperwork and never said aword....we got a tax paper once but ignored it....I don''t want to pay them! Our legal address is in Arizona and they told us we did not have to register it because it has documentation! So I guess we will register it in AZ they said they would do it if we wanted but not neccessary..Thanks for the info!

Jeff_H 11-30-2004 04:36 PM

And Freedom For All
 
Registering in Arizona won''t help you in states like Florida who have a user fee. If you have your boat in a state with a user fee, and you stay in the state for a stipulated period (typically 30 or 60 days), after that period, even if your boat is documented you will be required to pay the user fee and in many states the user fee is approximately the same cost as a sales tax. If you have paid sales tax in another state and can prove it, you can then get reciprocity on the sales tax portion of the user fee and only pay a user fee that is roughly the same price as registration.

Jeff

WHOOSH 12-01-2004 02:53 AM

And Freedom For All
 
Venice is the exception to the rule, fortunately, altho'' Jeff''s general description of the use tax requirements applies to many of the East Coast states. And the marine police there do indeed have a rep among boaters.

When/if stopped for not displaying a ''registration'' sticker for your documented boat, the first legal issue is how long you have been in that state (as proven by fuel or berthing receipts, e.g.). If your presence exceeds the state limits and/or you are not registered (as a documented vessel) with any other state, probably the best posture is to simply prove identity (e.g. with passport), not offer residential address, and accept the citation. The fee is $65 last I heard, and you are most likely in violation of the law (no matter what you think of its legitimacy nor how poorly represented it is by the Cornpone Patrol). Once you leave Venice behind, this likely won''t surface again anywhere else in Florida.

Sailing ''around'' Venice between Ft. Myers and e.g. Sarasota or Tampa Bay is also a nice alternative...

Jack

DelmarRey 12-01-2004 08:04 AM

And Freedom For All
 
What''s with the fish and game?

I had a similar experience over here in Puget Sound. These guys are stepping over the line as far as jurisdiction.
I motored my dinghy over to a fuel dock in a marina where I was a guest for a night. As I approached, a F & G official wanted to know where my registration numbers and sticker were. I told the guy he better go back and read the rules. Here in Wa. anything under 10'' and 10HP does not require registration. Never the less, I didn''t even finish docking because I had forgotten to bring a life jacket and I didn''t want him getting into that. So I just motored back to my vessel pissed as hell.

You give a guy a badge and a gun and they think they know everything. They need to stick to their own agenda and if they see a problem they should call in the PROPER authorities.

A few years ago there was a big stink here about a parks ranger giving a citation to a guy cutting firewood on his own property. When he tried to take it to court the official couldn’t be found. He didn''t exist. Something fishy there!

sailnaway 12-02-2004 06:55 PM

And Freedom For All
 
DelmarRey adds to what I was trying to say but I get to excited or maybe its That NRA thing I''m not sure. This guy came on like a bad guy and acted kind of crazy asking bogus questions and laying out senarios like what if you bought the boat here and never left. But I did but what if you did not. Dumb ass questions to ask a person who is visiting,I mean well then I ether died while in Florida IE I never would leave again or I moved to that state and had a Florida Drivers lic. I do not think however that making up a battery of questions of what if is right or has any place but in an interogation. Then writing a warning ticket that I still have that has my wifes hight and weight her Louisiana DL number the boats name but no number from the documentationthe date and no proof of regestration in the comment box. Not to mention I cut the hell out of my heal when the Nazi ordered me to drop that anchor back down and a wire through the clevis caught my heal and cut it all the way across about an inch and as blood flowed he never said once would you like to go put something on that. That A HOLE should not wear a badge, my dad was a Highway Patrolman for many years and a detective in Miami and I don''t think he ever treated anyone that way but he did quit to become a trucker they were more honest he said.The problem is that the number of jerks that wear a badge is growing and they have started to make up the rules to suit them selfs.That is a freedom rights issue in my book they want you to play by the rules but if they think they can change it a little to make it easy for them to find a violation they will and if it was not in the book they cover it up by burying the truth in bull ****.Interputation of the law is for Judges and lawyers not law inforcement who are assigned to protect and serve the public. To many want to have compleat control over anyone they incounter rather than serve them.

Izabella01 12-05-2004 11:42 AM

And Freedom For All
 
you do not have to have florida regitration for a documented boat.

we have a catalina 400 sailing out of bradenton/st pete florida.

That fish and game guy is full of crap and he knows it. He prolly did not get laid the night before.

Point in fact.. he did not have the authority to stop you period. Under federal law any boat over 40 feet is required to be documented. Anything under is a matter of personal choice. I am in the process of documenting my Ericson 27 so that i can take it out of the country with no hassle.

the feds [coasties] can legally board your boat at whim. The state guys have to have probably cause and if they harrass you they are walking on thin ice and they know it.

Call the Florida Fish and GAme commission and turn this jerk in.

I am sorry you had a bad experience. Not all of florida is like that.
good luck
''bella


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