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rbyham 11-30-2013 06:15 PM

Tacking a Genoa?
 
This was my third time out with a new to me 135. Coming from having learned to sail this year with a 100 jib this is a whole new world. I love the added power and with furler I don't worry to much about being overwhelmed. But here is my question. Is there any way to avoid dragging it across 4 stays as I tack? Seems like a rip could easily happen. Gybing goes much better because wind pushes sail forward. TIA...

DonScribner 11-30-2013 06:27 PM

Re: Tacking a Genoa?
 
Ruby,

We have a 150% genoa. We just tack and let her drag where she feels like it. This usually means getting hung up on the shrouds and life lines, then a dramatic pulse of power and snapping of sheets taunt as soon as she fills. At very least it looks cool and in the right wind, you might find your rail in the water. (But that's ANOTHER thread) I suppose you could roll it in advance to let it bypass the rigging. But then you'd miss the dramatic pulse of power and the chance to find yourself staring blindly into the surf and screaming "Dump the wind! Dump the WIND!!!" But, that's Another thread.

Don

CalebD 11-30-2013 06:32 PM

Re: Tacking a Genoa?
 
Here is one idea:
Forespar Sailsaver Jib Roller
I suspect you could make something similar on your own using pieces of PVC pipe.
Another option is to partially furl up the genoa before tacking and let it out again after the tack.

Faster 11-30-2013 06:32 PM

Re: Tacking a Genoa?
 
The only way to avoid the sail dragging across the rig would be to roll it halfway up, then tack and redeploy it... Lotsa work and I think you'd tire of it quickly.

You can ease things by adding shroud rollers to make it easier for everything to slide by, using a larks head attached one-piece sheet to minimize the bulk of a couple of bowline knots, and hold the sheet a little until the sail is inverted before releasing and pulling in on the new tack. It's less likely to get snagged on something that way.

The sail will survive quite a long time despite the "abuse". Make sure the leech line is enclosed and protected without hanging out.. They can catch on mast hardware. Keep an eye on the UV cover.. Probably the first place you'll see any issues.

paulk 11-30-2013 06:35 PM

Re: Tacking a Genoa?
 
Some people put shroud rollers on their shrouds to keep the chafe down. If you have enough crew, someone can be assigned to help the sail around the shrouds. This can speed up your tacks as well, since the person can heave on the sheet , along with the trimmer winching, once the clew is past the new leeward shrouds. Working on the timing of the release and coordinating it with your turn can also help cut down the amount of flogging against the shrouds.

Faster 11-30-2013 09:03 PM

Re: Tacking a Genoa?
 
Here's an old 12 meter trick.. have a grommet/cringle added to the sail at mid foot. Run a light line from it forward to a block at the bow, and aft to the cockpit. During the tack, once the sheet's released, pull the line to get the bulk of the sail forward of the mast, once the sail's 'blown through' release it (making sure it can run free) and sheet the sail in as normal.

Much less labour intensive than partially rolling the sail during a tack.

..or just do what most of us do, refine your technique then grin and bear it! ;)

SchockT 11-30-2013 11:21 PM

Re: Tacking a Genoa?
 
Rollers definitely help. I have rollers on my lifelines so the foot doesn't catch on the stancheons as you grind in to close-hauled, which reduces the number of times you have to "skirt" the sail. When tacking from close hauled timing of the release is very important. release too early and the sail flogs, making it very hard to get the sail across smoothly. Release too late and the sail backwinds too much, trying to poke the spreader through the sail. When we tack, the first thing we do is "squeak" a bit of sheet out in preparation for the tack, which serves to get the sail away from the spreader a bit, and gives the boat a bit of acceleration going into the tack. As the boat turns we hold the sheet until the headsail begins to backwind, but release before it plasters against the rigging. That way the wind blows the sail through the foretriangle quickly. That also helps to push the bow around on the new tack. It is also important to minimize the number of things that can foul or snag the sheets and sail. Tape up all cotter pins and split rings. If you use bowlines on your sheets, keep the loops small; a big space between the knot and the clew will catch on shrouds and stays every time and drive you crazy!

Genoas are built for the abuse of tacking, but if you are concerned about damage, you can have reinforcement patches sewn on to the areas that contact hard points like spreaders and stancheons. (this is more common on laminate sails than dacron, which is more tolerant of the abuse). In my opinion excessive flogging does more harm to a sail than dragging across smooth rigging. Learn to tack with minimal flogging and you will do your sails a favor!

OZWILD 12-01-2013 12:07 AM

Re: Tacking a Genoa?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rbyham (Post 1173969)
This was my third time out with a new to me 135. Coming from having learned to sail this year with a 100 jib this is a whole new world. I love the added power and with furler I don't worry to much about being overwhelmed. But here is my question. Is there any way to avoid dragging it across 4 stays as I tack? Seems like a rip could easily happen. Gybing goes much better because wind pushes sail forward. TIA...

The sail saver / jib saver idea is a good one as mentioned by Caleb - found them in my toolbox when I bought Pandora. Haven't installed them though.

Our process when tacking is to leave the jib tight on the current winch until we are through the wind then release it so the wind takes the jib across with some force. Gives us good speed when racing as it powers up quickly. This reduces the likelyhood of the jib or jib sheets snagging on anything as well.

Often we forget to close the front hatch when cruising and that is where the sheets get snagged.

We used to reef the jib on the roller before tacking but it's too inefficient.

RichH 12-01-2013 12:08 AM

Re: Tacking a Genoa?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faster (Post 1174401)
Here's an old 12 meter trick.. have a grommet/cringle added to the sail at mid foot. Run a light line from it forward to a block at the bow, and aft to the cockpit. During the tack, once the sheet's released, pull the line to get the bulk of the sail forward of the mast, once the sail's 'blown through' release it (making sure it can run free) and sheet the sail in as normal.

Much less labour intensive than partially rolling the sail during a tack.

..or just do what most of us do, refine your technique then grin and bear it! ;)

In some circles what Faster describes is called 'tricing lines'. To see the zenith of tricing line handling, get a hold of a video of the 1987 Americas Cup Campaign ... all the boats engaged used 'tricing lines' on their genoas - and they had it 'mastered' to the highest degree possible.

yalnud 06-26-2014 09:58 PM

Re: Tacking a Genoa?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DonScribner (Post 1173985)
Ruby,

We have a 150% genoa. We just tack and let her drag where she feels like it. This usually means getting hung up on the shrouds and life lines, then a dramatic pulse of power and snapping of sheets taunt as soon as she fills. At very least it looks cool and in the right wind, you might find your rail in the water. (But that's ANOTHER thread) I suppose you could roll it in advance to let it bypass the rigging. But then you'd miss the dramatic pulse of power and the chance to find yourself staring blindly into the surf and screaming "Dump the wind! Dump the WIND!!!" But, that's Another thread.

Don

i NEVER LAUGHED SO HARD!!!!
DUMP THE WIND HAHAHHAHA


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