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6K views 53 replies 12 participants last post by  sneuman 
#1 ·
Happy Birthday To Jesus and Merry Christmas to you all. During this time of all the problems around the world Christmas still brings smiles to faces and the hope for a better day.
Thanks Jesus
Happy Birthday Jake
 
#27 ·
No problem, Chas. Loads of evidence (in addition to Age of Reason, already mentioned):

"I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble." - Benjamin Franklin (Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj. Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94.)

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)

Thomas Jefferson
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find
in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth."

Jefferson again
"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on
man...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the
teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and imposters led by Paul, the
first great corruptor of the teachings of Jesus."

More Jefferson
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulturated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy in fact,
constitute the real Anti-Christ."

Adams
"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
absurdity."

Adams:
"It is the duty of every true Diest to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."

And; "The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in
pretend imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty."

Do you need more?
 
#29 ·
The Captain of The Christmas Tree Ship would have some words to say if he was alive today. Even some of the famous pirates would seek out the church because they knew they were going to be killed would be my best guess as to why.And I think allot of them were hanged after they were offered the service of a preist. This is crazy bickering about a small statement that harms no one its only reason is for good tidings.You don''t have to make it into a political issue.
 
#30 ·
I think that as sailors we think about the enormity of the universe and ponder things more than the average person. Probably we travel more and experience other cultures more than the average person. We are also probably more open to other cultures. Most religions are self consistent and if you are immersed in the religion and culture they make perfect sense. At sea on a starry night it is hard not to think about the meaning of it all and our place in the world.
Working at a university I''ve met many people from other cultures. The Chinese and Russians mostly seem to think that our supersistions are quaint. Hindus seem to think Jesus is just another manifestation of Brahma. Jews and Muslims generally seem tolerant of Christians as long as they don''t try to convert them to christians. Buddist seem to be the most open minded and tolerant. My fear is that as religions grab more and more power that the world becomes a less and less loving humanistic place.
I hope that I get to sail my sailboat to many different cultures and that they will be friendly.
 
#33 ·
Denr,

As always (well, most of the time), I find your humor to be most refreshing. You had me laughing with this one!

Now, with all due respect to the other "contributors" to this topic .............. You have 2 big choices for your faucet-- Delta and Moen. Personally, I put my faith in Moen. I think 94 percent of the founding fathers would agree, too!

Respectfully,
SailorMitch (he who reads the Tao te Ching for inspiration when he can''t drink a cup of really good coffee in the cockpit watching the day come alive on a crisp Chesapeake morning)
 
#34 ·
Hello to all my sailing brothers and sisters, Merry Christmas!


I’ve been away from this site for awhile while I use more, and more of my time helping my wife as she struggles with cancer. For some reason, I felt I needed to come back here today. The first topic I saw was this one, and I had to respond. “Happy Birthday Jesus.” What a simple statement to draw so much debate, and controversy. Who was this “Jesus?” Well, almost every major civilization through out time has some reference to him through their historical records, so I think it’s fair to say that he did exist. But, who was Jesus, prophet priest, or king? This question seems to be where the difficulty lies for men. We each have to find the answer to that question for ourselves. His simple message of “love, peace and hope" have confounded men for centuries. I’m sure it will continue to do so until the end of time. It seems man’s arrogance over rides this simple message while trying to resolve the complexities of an existent creed that isn’t dependent on anyone, or anything. To the believer in Christ, there is no mathematical formula or science that proves his existence. None is needed, for we see his subtle hand moving within our lives, directing us to a promised place where there are no wars, pain, or sorrow. To neither deny nor acknowledge this “presence” we feel publicly, would be as impossible for us as it is to sail without any wind. To the non-believer, there is no phrase, evidence, or purpose that exemplifies that a divine plan is in place, and there is a purpose in all things we witness, both good and bad. Without a change of heart, the soul of man is void of redemption. So what is the answer to the indifference between believer, and non-believer? The answer is summarily given with one word.Tolerance. You either care enough for your sailing brothers and sisters here to let them speak without fear of being rebuked, or not. Listen to hear, not to speak. For in this exchange lies the power of knowledge.

It is my hope, that all my sailing brothers and sisters reading this, both believer and non-believer will use this Christmas season to spread the simple message that Jesus brought to this earth so many, many, years ago. Peace, love, and hope. Use this time to mend a troubled relationship with a friend,or loved one. Reach out to someone that is in need. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. Work for peace. Start your new year caring for others more than you do yourself. Strive daily to make this world a better place by you being here. For in these actions, is a Merry Christmas!
 
#37 ·
Happy birthday Jesus!
Thanks for everything you''ve done for us!
I lift up all of our troops over there in Iraq to you and ask you to supernaturally protect them and give them comfort especially at this time of year.
It would be nice if the conflict would end so that they could come home and be with their families.
I also lift Stede''s wife up to you and ask you to grant them a miricle of healing for her. I thank you for your stripes.
And, also that people would prize lovingkindness and helping each other above opinions, for it''s certain that we all get what we''re looking for in this life you gave us.
I''m sorry for allowing some of the people here to make me angry and for throwing your word a round in a manner that was not pleasing to you. So I ask you to forgive me for that.

And also I lift up little Laura at RPM and ask you to bless her with whatever she may need.

Again, thank You for all that you have done for us.

Happy Birthday! And even if the day we celebrate is incorrect, thank you for giving us a day to celebrate You, wonderful Jesus!

Love, Brenda
 
#40 ·
sneuman,

Yes! They sound like disgruntled Christians to me. I''ve been there! We''ve all had our days when we had doughts and anger towards God. And we''ve all had our days when we''ve sinned and ask for forgiveness.

And, I don''t believe George Orwell had anything to do with the Constitution or the Declaration.

Isn''t it ironic that the Declaration starts out with the mention of God!!!!!

"The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature''s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."

The signers of the Declaration represented the new states as follows:

New Hampshire
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts
John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

Connecticut
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

New York
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

New Jersey
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Delaware
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

Maryland
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

North Carolina
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

South Carolina
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

Georgia
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

Merry Christmas to all.................._/)
 
#41 ·
No, not disgruntled Christians. Deists. For the last time, they were DEISTS. Deists. It''s a fact.

Because they were DEISTS, they believed in a personal God and that''s the reason God comes up in some of the founders literature.

But, for the last time, THE MAJORITY OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE NOT CHRISTIAN!

Brenda,

While you''re praying to God to place a force field over our troops in Iraq, why not also pray for Him to do some abracadabra over innocent civilians? After all, none of them signed up to die.
 
#42 ·
No, not disgruntled Christians. Deists. For the last time, they were DEISTS. Deists. It''s a fact.

Because they were DEISTS, they believed in a personal God and that''s the reason God comes up in some of the founders literature.

But, for the last time, THE MAJORITY OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE NOT CHRISTIAN!

Brenda,

While you''re praying to God to place a force field over our troops in Iraq, why not also pray for Him to do some abracadabra over innocent civilians? After all, none of them signed up to die.
 
#43 ·
Sneuman. Relax. Take a deep breath. As hard as it is to believe it. You do not need to fight this battle.
You see, you have been conned by one of the things on this board that has lured many a reckless fool with more then two IQ points to rub together on a cold evening into research and fair presentation of truth...only to find that there own brains end up leaking form their ears as they attempt to unmderstand how someone can be so astoundingly dense and not have their very own gravitational field. I myself was one such young fool. You can argue vociferously and factually, you can be reasonable and well read and gently educational, lest your correspondent is genuinly that ignorant. And the astounding thing is it does not make the slightest quark of difference.

And I will tell you why.

Brenda is not real.

She does not actually exist!

She is a construct designed to test some abstract theory of human phsycology and is in fact a program written in the wee lonely hours of some MIT student out to prove a point so abstract, so esoteric as to beggar beleife and make one wonder why he couldn''t have just, for the love of small fluffy rodents, found a girlfriend! (or maybe one of the small fluffy rodents...err, never mind).

We do not know if the experiment is ongoing or if some dreadful twist of fate saw the construct that we know as Brenda unleashed onto the sailing board beyond her creator''s control.
It is possible that this phase is indeed still part of the experiment and that every time one of us throws up their hands and cries "Dear Deity of non-specific and possibly entirely fictional and subjective origin, please save me from your most rabbid of followers! Protect me from becoming a pathetic drooling moron as I fail to restrain myself from attemptiong to think along her lines. By all that is holy, subdue your creature!!!!!"....that the sound of gleeful, maniacal cackling can be heard from the MIT dorms.

Or perhaps the envisiaged architect of Brenda was himself consumed by the mindless preaching thing that he invented and is now no more then a greasy puddle on some floor, who was left so vegatative by his prolongued exposure to Brenda that he never even noticed the moment of his own passing. If so, it was a mercy he did not deserve. For now we are left to face her rampant faux-christianity without the chance to really slap him for inventing her.

So there you have it. Your "opponent" is not in fact a woman who frequents a sailing board without ever going sailing and posts inappropriate diatriabes that embarass most reall Christians who encounter them. She is a construct. An unstoppable, resolute, sucking vortex of purest "stupid" and she absolutely will not cease her diatribes and displays of phenomenal ignorance until you are giggling inanely and wearing adult diapers in a place likely to be named "Restful Valley" or similar.

Do not argue with her and she will "reset" to the default position where she only says something stupid from time to time as a lure to the new and unwary, but respond to her and I swear that you will literally feel your intelligence packing its liuttle suitcases, cell by weary cell, and flying off to whatever version of the Bahamas your cortex has to offer.

Do not persist.

You have been warned.

Like buying some sort of boats in the beliefe that they can be "restored", Trying to talk to Brenda is a folly that will lead you to certain ruination and cursing the day you found this site.


:)


Sasha
...Brenda Idiocy Survivor number 4472
 
#45 ·
Yes, and lab mice are hyperintelligent, pandimensional beings who are conducting experiments on human beings to determine the meaning of life, the universe and everything. You can joke and play all the cynical games you want but there''s no substitute for trusting in God.

Chas.
 
#46 ·
...And then someone says something so dumb as to be impossible not to answer.

Look whatever your own relationship is with god and such. You might like to get a couple of facts straight.

Douglas Adams did not commit suicide. He died of a sudden heart attack at the age of 49 while in the California. It was sudden, undiagnosed, and tragic. Yes there was an autopsie, no there were no drugs or "suspicious circumstances". He left behind an incredibly talented lady who he was still amazed at having married and a seven year old daughter, neither of whome would be well pleased at you accusation that he committed suicide.
I was fortunate to have spoken to the man on several occasions and to have interviewed him a couple of times for a radio program here. I also got to have dinner with him and Terry Pratchet at the same table (along with a few genuine philosophers and people that can come up with worse puns then I can without breaking a sweat).
I am not saying that in order to "show off" or claim to know him better then I did, but suffice to say that I do not think anyone that ever met him could have called him cynical. He was very warm, very comfortable within himself and very gentle and respectful about people (with the exception of Holywood production types. Hearing him and Pratchet compare war stories from various "negotiations" of companies wanting to make films of their books was the only time I have heard him be harsh and cycnical. With damned good reason).
Unlike Pratchett he was alomst the opposite of the writing style that he used in Hitchikers Guide. He was perceptive and deliberate, had very real goals and beliefes that went way beyond his own personal success and his own lifetime (which he saw as being either about 90 or 170 depending on what the Human Genome Project would lead to in his lifetime).
For all that I actually prefer Pratchett''s books (with the exception of "Last Chance To See" by Adams), after meeting him a few times, I actually cared about Douglas Adams on a personal friendly level a good deal more. He just had this warmth, honesty and intelect that made it easy to "look out for him" the way you would for a friend.

So with all due respect, Before you go trying to besmirch his memory, you may wish to be a somewhat better person and get you facts right. You may wish to be a somehwat better Christian and not condemn him for something that he himself would consider a Sin. And while it is unlikely that his daughter (I guess she would be about ten now) is likely to read this board by any stretch of the imagination, what you just said comes across as slimy and hateful when viewed from that perspective.

Sorry for the disjointed post, folks. Not going to try and correct it. It is pre-7am here and I got up to read this thing. Would not have minded an attack of fire and brimstone against me, but this factless nonsense was just too weird and hurtful to leave alone.

Bad Flicker, No biscuit!

Sasha
 
#47 ·
SO WHAT HAS ALL THIS DONE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO BE OVER EDUCATED AND WERE BROUGHT UP IN AN ENVIROMENT WHERE CHRISTIANS MUST HAVE BEEN CRUSHED UNDER THE HEELS OF THIER BOOTS.
WERE YOUR PARENTS NAZI''S AND HAVE ALLOT OF TIME FOR HATE RELATED BASHING OF OTHERS AND WHAT THEY HOLD IN THIER HEART AS AN AMERICAN TRADITION. NONE OF YOU HAVE ANY ROOM TO TALK DOWN TO ME OR ANY OTHER PERSON WHO WALKS THIS PATH WITH ME. DO NOT POST TO THIS THREAD UNLESS YOU HAVE GOOD THINGS TO SAY.
SANTA WAS A SAILOR NOT A SOB WHICH ARE YOU?
 
#48 ·
You''re funny. Did you know that?


By the way, Santa Clause, who is based on Saint Nicholas (Who was of the Greek orthadox church and about as far removed as one can get from your brand of faith)and only by the loosest thread had anything to do with christmas before the US advertising indistry got to him was not a sailor. He made a total of two crossings by sea in his life (that we know of) and was so miserable and sick on both occassions that it is said that on the second crossing he prayed for god to intervene and calm the waves. It is for this reason that he is considered a saint to sailors. He himself avoided water travel like the plague.

As for choosing whether to be santa clause or an SOB...well. I currently look more like santa, But of the two, I think I am definately an SOB (You''d have to have met my mother to concur with that, but take my word for it)


Anyway. Thank you for the giggle factor of your post. I always get an extra laugh when someone manages to drag "Nazis" into it, but you went on to mention "american Traditions" and issued a commandment about a bulletin board you do not own.
Its hard to find people that put that much craft into coming across as ridiculous.
As Joss Whedon put it;"My days of not taking you seriously are definately coming to a middle"


Sasha
 
#49 ·
Remember that Hitler was born and raised a Catholic and on more than one occassion said he thought the final solution was "doing God''s work." The rank-and-file Nazis were also Catholic. Also, remember that the Papal states were the first to ghettoize the Jews - long before Hitler. Pope Pius XII almost certainly knew of the plight of Jews throughout German-occupied territory. He did nothing.
 
#50 ·
I am happy to report that there has never been a Christian pleasure sailor to harm the Jews in anyway. Many infact were in a group of men that stormed into Nazis death camps and freed the Jews from their imprisonment. One this to rememeber Jesus was a Jew Born and raised in that culture. At this time of year my hope is that the love he has for all men would fill all our hearts and turn us all into brothers.
 
#51 ·
I am happy to report that there has never been a Christian pleasure sailor to harm the Jews in anyway. Many infact were in a group of men that stormed into Nazis death camps and freed the Jews from their imprisonment. One this to rememeber Jesus was a Jew Born and raised in that culture. At this time of year my hope is that the love he has for all men would fill all our hearts and turn us all into brothers.
 
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