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  #31  
Old 12-09-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
A boat is either hove to or it isn't there is no isnt
I agree, but thers many degrees of hove to. But hove too where you are drifting dead down wind is a tricky and difficult state to get in. Boats dont want to sit still. They don't want to be drifting sidewards to the current. Ive tried it a few times remembering all the different ideas people had... Small main large jib, no job, no main, etc. to get your boat to drift sideways at no speed forwards is difficult. Last t me i practiced it too me more than an hour to do it.... And then if the wind had come up, or drooped a bit, i would have started all over again.

Probably we should be trying to get the boat moving so slowly,and then go for the magic gold of being stationary.

Life helicopter pilots will tell you, hovering is the most difficult... Where we thing hovering should be easy.


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  #32  
Old 12-09-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

I think it must be a design thing, my boat heaves quite nicely with almost no effort main only. I still prefer to avoid heavy weather as best as I can cause I get scared but its nice knowing I can when I need to.
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  #33  
Old 12-09-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

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Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
Saying a boat is hove to while its actually for-reaching is like saying my plane fly's really well it just wont get off the ground A boat is either hove to or it isn't there is no middle ground. For-reaching is not hove to its for-reaching They both serve a very specific propose just like a chainsaw and a butter knife but I wouldn't use a chainsaw to butter my bread
Where has anyone said that fore-reaching is identical to being hove-to?
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  #34  
Old 12-09-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

DO I have to answer this?
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  #35  
Old 12-09-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

Not if you don't want to.

Gary
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  #36  
Old 12-09-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
Saying a boat is hove to while its actually for-reaching is like saying my plane fly's really well it just wont get off the ground A boat is either hove to or it isn't there is no middle ground. For-reaching is not hove to its for-reaching They both serve a very specific propose just like a chainsaw and a butter knife but I wouldn't use a chainsaw to butter my bread
Not sure if I understand you but with all that wind the seas, and the boat is staying in the same place!! An experiment for next time when it gets windy: just before you heave-to, get a fix and write it down. Then stay hove-to for at least 12 hours and take another fix. According to you the two positions should be dead on exactly the same, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
I agree, but thers many degrees of hove to. But hove too where you are drifting dead down wind is a tricky and difficult state to get in. Boats dont want to sit still. They don't want to be drifting sidewards to the current. Ive tried it a few times remembering all the different ideas people had... Small main large jib, no job, no main, etc. to get your boat to drift sideways at no speed forwards is difficult. Last t me i practiced it too me more than an hour to do it.... And then if the wind had come up, or drooped a bit, i would have started all over again.

Probably we should be trying to get the boat moving so slowly,and then go for the magic gold of being stationary.

Life helicopter pilots will tell you, hovering is the most difficult... Where we thing hovering should be easy.


Mark
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  #37  
Old 12-09-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

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Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
Not sure if I understand you but with all that wind the seas, and the boat is staying in the same place!! An experiment for next time when it gets windy: just before you heave-to, get a fix and write it down. Then stay hove-to for at least 12 hours and take another fix. According to you the two positions should be dead on exactly the same, right?
I don't think anyone is suggesting that, either... Most people understand the classic meaning of being properly hove-to as being the forward motion of the boat has been stopped, the result being a slow drift of to leeward, but remaining within the protection of the slick to windward created by the boat's drift...

However, with most modern fin keelers, especially as winds increase, maintaining the desired 45-50 degree heading into the wind/seas, without either moving forward out of the slick, or having the bow fall off and presenting the boat broadside to the seas, can be extremely difficult/impossible to achieve...

I'd like to meet the guy who could get this boat to 'properly' heave-to, in these conditions :-)


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  #38  
Old 12-09-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

Quote:
I don't think anyone is suggesting that, either... Most people understand the classic meaning of being properly hove-to as being the forward motion of the boat has been stopped, the result being a slow drift of to leeward, but remaining within the protection of the slick to windward created by the boat's drift...
Very clear Jon, thank you, seems to have been more confusion on this point than I'd expected.
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  #39  
Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

[quote=JonEisberg;1205401]I don't think anyone is suggesting that, either... Most people understand the classic meaning of being properly hove-to as being the forward motion of the boat has been stopped, the result being a slow drift of to leeward, but remaining within the protection of the slick to windward created by the boat's drift...



Well said. That's exactly what hove-to means to me. If a little bit of forward motion exists(it often does), that's why the rudder is usually turned to windward, to stop that slight forward motion, turning slightly windward, and continue to drift dead downwind, but with a slight scalloping motion, that will add a few degrees to windward of dead down wind.

But I think this thread was started (from another thread), simply to hear exactly how people do heave-to.

For someone that has never done it. I think what they want to know is; what sail(s), what rudder angle(s), etc., in the wind conditions that they're likely to try it in.

I think even in moderate conditions, this knowledge could save some people from problems that can crop up quickly for coastal sailors(fatigue).

Heaving to shouldn't be thought of as just a storm tactic.
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  #40  
Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Heaving-To

It's become apparent two different lines of thinking are operative
1."traditional" boats vrs. high aspect fin/bulbed keeled-balance spade rudder boats
2.heaving to for rest in mild/moderate conditions vrs. as survival technique

Would be worthwhile to acknowledge these different issues. My prior Tayana (full keel) and PSC 34 ( low aspect fin) were both cutters. Both would hove to by just leaving the jib sheet alone and flipping the wheel over and stay put. In storm force winds/seas both would hove to with wheel lashed ( and all crew below) with stay sail and triple reefed main. My current boat fore reaches a bit even with everything tucked down. However, she is extremely comfortable in all conditions if actively sailed and even tracks very well if any attention paid to sail balance to the point the AP suffices. As alluded to before many "authorities" suggest with "modern" boats heaving to is not a good storm tactic. If rest or conditions require a JSD is the tactic of last resort.
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