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  #91  
Old 12-13-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by azguy View Post
It so irritates me when people don't play by the rules. When someone says get insurance, I get insurance. When someone says get an inspection, I get an inspection.

Harborless and Captain Jack have decided that boat equipment is more important than protecting the people around them. They make their own priorities and own list of what important to them and use lack of money to skirt the rules when it suits their needs.

Captain Jack, you should have pulled the boat, put it on stands, had a survey, got insurance and then worked on the boat in that order. Either on the hard or in the water, your choice at the point.

You made the conscious decision that a boom kicker and know a bilge pump is a higher priority than a haul out and survey. Plain and simple...

I live in an HOA community, I love it because I don't have to worry about someone deciding their house should be purple or that a camper should be stored in the front yard or they want to put up a basketball hoop in the driveway and bounce a ball until mid-night each night. People know this moving in but we still get the occasional new resident that wants to paint their front door red, or wants the overnight street parking ban changed because all their cars won't fit in the driveway or garage...
hmmmm yes, comrade, people, living in a supposedly free country, thinking they have some right to decide what to do with and on property, that they supposedly own, is so very annoying.

HOAs are made for people that feel they have a right to dictate to others what they should do and how they should live...and is as far from the principles and ideals of America, and the constitution, as you can get. it's amazing. people sacrificed they fortunes, families, and lives to create a country where government was small and limited; where the people were free. and, what do we do with it? we increase the power of the federal government exponentially, to the point where the original constitution has been reduced to a meaningless piece of paper. we increase the power of the state and local governments, too. and we pay for those governing bodies to rob us of our freedom. but that's not enough. we had to create another level of 'government', one ruled by the nosy busy bodies, so we can have the last bit of our personal choice delegated to us. the founders of this country must me rolling in their graves at amazing RPMs.

the sad part is i know a lot of people that have lost hope for America; that say it's too far gone. but, not me. i'm always an optimist. but every time i read a statement like that, i realize i am fooling myself. so many Americans, a people who supposedly love freedom, want nothing more than to control their fellow man. as long as they control and are not controlled. that's the important thing. take another man's rights because i don't like what he chooses but don't touch mine.

you are glad that a man in your neighborhood can't paint his door red. that's right. it's good to rob him of free will because you are superior, to him, in your judgements. but what if the shoe was on the other foot? what if the balance of power shifted, in your HOA? what if the HOA mandated that you had to have a red door? would you think it so good, then, to have an HOA to tell you what you can't do with your proberty, because they think they have superior taste compared to yours?

by the way, you may not have taken time to actully read what i have actually posted, i am starting to suspect there is a lot of that going around, but a bilge pump is a REQUIREMENT OF THE MARINA which i am supposed to be in COMPLIANCE with. i already stated that. the boat is not taking on water, so i would have waited on that. but i was following the RULES when i got it. but you want to cut on me for getting the bilge pump. is there no winning? i am condemned if i don't toe the line and i am condemned if i do.

hmmm i almost missed it, but you seem to imply i am trying not to get insurance. perhaps you did not notice it but, the whole purpose of this thread was that i was trying to get insurance.

i bet you are appalled by the thought of someone flying the jolly roger for fun, on their boat, too.

Last edited by captain jack; 12-13-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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  #92  
Old 12-13-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

I am going to come out and say what a lot of people on this board are thinking. You cant afford this boat. You NEED liability insurance. If your boat sinks or leaks, the environmental cost is high. You may think it cant happen to you. You are wrong. The cost of insurance for you, is the insurance cost and either a quick haul or a survey. You can't separate them. If your boat breaks loose and hits my boat, YOU are responsible, not your $500 boat. You will be on the hook for any damage your boat does.

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  #93  
Old 12-13-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

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Originally Posted by glassdad View Post
I am going to come out and say what a lot of people on this board are thinking. You cant afford this boat. You NEED liability insurance. If your boat sinks or leaks, the environmental cost is high. You may think it cant happen to you. You are wrong. The cost of insurance for you, is the insurance cost and either a quick haul or a survey. You can't separate them. If your boat breaks loose and hits my boat, YOU are responsible, not your $500 boat. You will be on the hook for any damage your boat does.

Take care
man. you guys are killing me. has anyone read this thread?

I AM NOT LOOKING TO AVOID GETTING INSURANCE. the whole purpose of this entire thread is that i was looking TO GET INSURANCE.

WTF

in case anyone is just coming to this tread and would actually like to know what is going on:

i posted this thread looking for insurance or survey information. i had been looking for insurance and everyone wanyed a survey first, except progressive. progressive, however, was seriously expensive.

so, i posted hoping someone might be able to recommend a carrier that wouldn't require a survey, that wasn't outrageously priced, or recommend a way to find a less expensive survey.

so, i was looking to get insurance and save a little money. terrible of me, i know.

one poster recommended Foremost insurance. i tried them. bingo. just what i was looking for. good price and no survey. the one issue was they needed a few photos of the boat, hauled so they could see the whole thing.

not a terrible requirement but not a timely one. the boat is in the water and it's too cold to do the stuff i need to do when i do haul it, so i stated that i was going to see if the owners on the marina would let me slide, on the insurance, til it was warm enough to do what i need to do while it's on the hard.

well, i don't think that's a terrible thought, either. the boat has been there for years. first, while the PO was living in it, and for the last couple of years it's floated there, abandoned. it has no motor. no oil. no gas. it's just a fiberglass boat tied to the dock. it's sat like that all this time and nothing has occurred. it's probably a safe risk that it can sit for another two months without destroying the place. it's got 6 bow/stern lines, all in good condition. the chance that it is going to break away is pretty slender. and it hasn't taken on any water all of these years.

but that's not the point. if i explain the situation to the marina owners and they are cool to give me this leeway, what is so terrible about that? nothing, that i can see.

then, i pondered if it might not be possible for the boat to be hauled out, photos taken while on the lift, and put back in, for less cost than a full haul out. i figured, if it is, i could get the photos now and haul it for work when the weather permits. and one poster said that that is something that is possible.

so, i was going to see if they can work with me and if not see if i can have it temporarily hauled. end of the actual pertinent discussion. all the rest is useless BS.

notice that there is one common theme throughout: i am trying to get it insured. but somehow, i have become public enemy number one. despite the fact i keep saying i am not trying to avoid buying insurance, i keep getting bashed for trying to have a boat without buying insurance. i can only suppose no one is bothering to read any of my posts...or, perhaps, they are only reading the parts of my posts that they want to read. idk.

but, you guys can keep debating the evils of not 'following the rules' ( who makes the rules, i wonder, and who made him god? )and bashing me for something i am not even trying to do. you can condemn me for the crime of not being afluent, yet still thinking i should be able to sail, all you want. knock yourselves out. i'm done with this thread. it stopped yielding useful information a good while back. i have more useful things to do with my time, like getting this boat ready to sail and pulling fuzz out of my belly button.


PS it's a $300 boat, not a $500 boat.

Last edited by captain jack; 12-13-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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  #94  
Old 12-13-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

Jack, what you are really complaining about is paying more for insurance because your boat is in a higher risk category. You want to pay the lower premium of a lower risk boat, but applied to your higher risk boat. The surveys are a way of proving your boat meets a minimum standard and you are worthy of a lower risk category. If you want lower payments, pass an insurance survey and get the lower rate. Pretty simple (ďeven a caveman can do itĒ or so the ads tell me.) The flaw in your financial analysis is the survey costs are amortized over multiple years. So pass the survey and over time, you will have lower amortized payments (you are thinking of keeping the boat more than a year?). Let me know how your discussions go with the marina operator assuming all the risks for your boat. I might want to try that tact myself. Iíve been in the same marina for over fifteen years without a claim or complaint. Perhaps my marina will waive the insurance requirement for me too?
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  #95  
Old 02-20-2014
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Re: insurance/survey

Just my two cents... I see that you wanted to use "Foremost Insurance"
Just saying:
Foremost Reviews | InsuranceUSA.com

Foremost Insurance Customer Reviews and Ratings | FreeAdvice.com

I hope I'm not "breaking" any rules by posting review links.... These links can be used to review many companies ... I note than NONE of the reviews are good when it comes to insurance companies
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  #96  
Old 02-20-2014
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Re: insurance/survey

This survey cost is just a step in the cost of ownership. If you really can't afford this $300, then put your time (and some money if necessary) into terminating any legal responsibility for this vessel and move on in life. There's doubtlessly another dozen or two $300+ expenditures required to get the boat into safe operable mode. If you can't handle this one, how will you deal with the lengthy list of follow-on costs? Quit while your hole in the water is still rather small...
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  #97  
Old 02-20-2014
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Re: insurance/survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine_bill View Post
Just my two cents... I see that you wanted to use "Foremost Insurance"
Just saying:
Foremost Reviews | InsuranceUSA.com

Foremost Insurance Customer Reviews and Ratings | FreeAdvice.com

I hope I'm not "breaking" any rules by posting review links.... These links can be used to review many companies ... I note than NONE of the reviews are good when it comes to insurance companies
My family has had vessels insured thru formost for over fifty years my dad sold his Ericson in Texas then a couple days later the mast fell off the boat it was found to be caused by a lightening strike that happened before my folks purchased the boat formost covered the total cost even though my folks had sold the vessel a week before the incident happened.
Also I read through the links you provided and there were only two posts for formost marine insurance one was good review and the other was stated as bad however the reason for them denying was an exclusion on the policy that the boat owner knew of and didn't change when he got the policy.
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  #98  
Old 02-20-2014
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Re: insurance/survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine_bill View Post
Just my two cents... I see that you wanted to use "Foremost Insurance"
Just saying:
Foremost Reviews | InsuranceUSA.com

Foremost Insurance Customer Reviews and Ratings | FreeAdvice.com

I hope I'm not "breaking" any rules by posting review links.... These links can be used to review many companies ... I note than NONE of the reviews are good when it comes to insurance companies
thanks for the links. i will check them out. i haven't hauled the bat, yet, so i haven't been able to get the pics they require to be able to get insurance.

i would say that none of the reviews of insurance companies are good because insurance is a scam. no matter how good a thing it was, at one time, it's a scam, now. you pay your monthly fees for years without a claim and, when you actually need them, they do everything in their power to avoid fulfilling the duty you have been paying them for. but, you have to have it....so, it's a legally protected scam. there will be many others who disagree but i speak from a lot of experience with a bunch of companies. say what you will, you will never convince me there is any such thing as a good. honest, depenable insurance company.
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  #99  
Old 02-20-2014
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Re: insurance/survey

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Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
This survey cost is just a step in the cost of ownership. If you really can't afford this $300, then put your time (and some money if necessary) into terminating any legal responsibility for this vessel and move on in life. There's doubtlessly another dozen or two $300+ expenditures required to get the boat into safe operable mode. If you can't handle this one, how will you deal with the lengthy list of follow-on costs? Quit while your hole in the water is still rather small...
an oft repeated sentiment which i have already addressed. needful expenses are one thing. but it has not been sufficiently evident, to me, that a survey is absolutely needful....at least, not at this point. it's a matter of prioritizing your expenditures. everyone has their own priorities. if i can get insurance without a survey, a survey is not needful....at least, not needful, at present. perhaps, when i am done with all the things i know need done, i may desire to get a survey just to have a second pair of eyes go over the boat. perhaps i won't. one thing for sure, there is enough money a need to spend to get her sailing, right now. if something like a survey can wait, or be removed from the list completely, that's cool by me.

some folks were so upset that i would have the audacity to not place a survey at the top of the priority list, and became so....ummmm.....impassioned in expressing their angst that i actually stopped responding to this thread. i was, after all, only looking for information of insurers that didn't insist on a survey or a cheaper surveyer. i wasn't looking to have the high priets of how-it's-supposed-to-be-done damn me me for my sinful thoughts. apparently, if you try to find a slightly different path that the majority take ( even if such a path exists and is lawful ), it makes you an evil person who threatens the very foundatins of society. who knew, right?

in fact, after some of the responses i got to this thread and having seen how people in other blogs look on having a motor with something akin to religious fervor, i it was with some trepidation that i mentioned my thoughts about running motorless, on sailnet. i was sure i would be cast out as a heretic, doomed to disaster and a watery grave. i was surprised, however, to find that surveys are a much bigger area of taboo, here, than sailing motorless.
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Last edited by captain jack; 02-20-2014 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 02-20-2014
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Re: insurance/survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
My family has had vessels insured thru formost for over fifty years my dad sold his Ericson in Texas then a couple days later the mast fell off the boat it was found to be caused by a lightening strike that happened before my folks purchased the boat formost covered the total cost even though my folks had sold the vessel a week before the incident happened.
Also I read through the links you provided and there were only two posts for formost marine insurance one was good review and the other was stated as bad however the reason for them denying was an exclusion on the policy that the boat owner knew of and didn't change when he got the policy.
well, there's a good testimonial for foremost
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