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post #1 of 127 Old 12-10-2013 Thread Starter
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insurance/survey

ok. this is about my 'new' cal27. the marina knows the boat so they aren't asking me to get a survey. however, liability insurance is required. they are being really good about working with me but i don't want to push them too far.

the problem, so far, has been the age of the boat. all of the insurance companies, so far, have required a survey. i was going to go with state farm because the price is great and, until today, they didn't say anything about a survey. however, when i went to get the policy started, it came up.

so, here's my problem. i never have carried insurance on a boat, before. i'd only have it now, because i have to. i haven't started calling around but i was told it would probably cost be between $10 and $20, a foot, to get it surveyed. that exceeds the cost of the boat just to have some guy look at it. that's not even a guarantee he wouldn't miss something. i need to buy a motor, yet. and running rigging. and bottom paint ( etc ). and spending $300 to have a guy tell me what i already know....

if i was going to get it surveyed, i'd want to wait til i got done what i know needs done, so he could tell me if i missed anything. but i don't think i will be able to wait, til then, for insurance.

anyhow, so i am looking to see if anyone knows an insurer that isn't going to ask for a survey or a surveyor that isn't going to ask for my right testicle, in payment.
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post #2 of 127 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

Hmmmm...
don't want a survey until you fix it up --
can't keep it where you can fix it without insurance --
can't get insurance without a survey --

Are you familiar with the phrase "Catch-22"?

Maybe you can get a policy with a whacking great deductible.
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post #3 of 127 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

Looks like you may lose the left nut as well.


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post #4 of 127 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

Caveat: this is coming from a guy who knows what he doesn't know and I don't know a lot about this topic, but I'll venture a guess and offer a possible direction for further inquiry on your part.

The survey is usually required so the underwriter can be sure the boat is worth what it's being insured for, and is in a condition that it's not going to sink once the lines are let go. Apart from the boat sinking at the dock and spilling fuel into the surrounding waters or the mast falling down and crushing someone walking down the dock, I'm curious as to why the condition of the vessel has much to do with liability for damage done in a marina. The reason the marina wants you insured may be that lawyers working for people who have sustained losses look for people they can blame/sue who have deep pockets. If you don't have insurance, the marina is next in line to be sued. They don't like that, and neither would their insurance company, which may be why there's a requirement that you have personal liability cover on the boat, i.e. the marina's insurer requires them to require you to have liability insurance so they're not the first in line when a law suit is filed.

Personal liability involved in taking people out in the boat is another matter -- the condition of the vessel has a direct impact on this. The marina isn't involved in this type of liability, but it may be that insurance companies can't separate the two types of liability -- i.e. that in the marina setting, and that once underway.

Talk to your home owner's / renter's insurance broker/company. You may find out that you're covered as far as personal liability is concerned up to the limits on your homeowner's / renter's insurance.

Others here, more knowledgeable than I, will certainly offer better insight and advice.
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post #5 of 127 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

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Originally Posted by billyruffn View Post
.....
Talk to your home owner's / renter's insurance broker/company. You may find out that you're covered as far as personal liability is concerned up to the limits on your homeowner's / renter's insurance.

Others here, more knowledgeable than I, will certainly offer better insight and advice.
I think this is a great place to start.. You're not insuring for any kind of replacement value, the marina wants the coverage in case you do damage to the docks or neighbours..

Oh... and same caveat!

Ron

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".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
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post #6 of 127 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

27x10=$270. that exceeds the cost of the boat ? OUCH ! My broker is State Farm I have had good luck with them . Perhaps you could have another sit down with them and emphasize the situation that you only need liability . But really a survey is not the end of the world . Case in point , a guy bought a sail boat that was next to me . The PO rarely came to the boat , it had sat there for about 7 yrs. The PO was a good guy and wasn't trying to hide anything . The new Cpt. didn't get a survey. I was helping him with some stuff , and I said open up that seacock . It got loose! It was found that there was a steel reducer! (finest HomeDepot) . Another case in point, years ago a boat caught fire a couple of slips down from me it started at the shore power plug on the boat . Boat was a total ,me I was ok thank you. So to wrap things up here a survey might of caught these things .
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post #7 of 127 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: insurance/survey

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i was going to go with state farm because the price is great and, until today, they didn't say anything about a survey. however, when i went to get the policy started, it came up.
What is the stated value of the boat?

My State Farm rep told me that they require a survey on boats with a replacement value of over $20k. I insured a Catalina 25 with a stated replacement value of $8k with no survey. My Pearson is insured for more and I did need to get a survey.

Different agents and different regions may of course vary. I'm in Seattle.

I'm no longer participating on SailNet.
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post #8 of 127 Old 12-10-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: insurance/survey

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Originally Posted by manatee View Post
Hmmmm...
don't want a survey until you fix it up --
can't keep it where you can fix it without insurance --
can't get insurance without a survey --

Are you familiar with the phrase "Catch-22"?

Maybe you can get a policy with a whacking great deductible.
lol. yeah. you called it. that's what it is....not that i can afford a survey, now, at tose prices. i'm not sure the deductable will make a difference. i guess i could ask.
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post #9 of 127 Old 12-10-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: insurance/survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyruffn View Post
Caveat: this is coming from a guy who knows what he doesn't know and I don't know a lot about this topic, but I'll venture a guess and offer a possible direction for further inquiry on your part.

The survey is usually required so the underwriter can be sure the boat is worth what it's being insured for, and is in a condition that it's not going to sink once the lines are let go. Apart from the boat sinking at the dock and spilling fuel into the surrounding waters or the mast falling down and crushing someone walking down the dock, I'm curious as to why the condition of the vessel has much to do with liability for damage done in a marina. The reason the marina wants you insured may be that lawyers working for people who have sustained losses look for people they can blame/sue who have deep pockets. If you don't have insurance, the marina is next in line to be sued. They don't like that, and neither would their insurance company, which may be why there's a requirement that you have personal liability cover on the boat, i.e. the marina's insurer requires them to require you to have liability insurance so they're not the first in line when a law suit is filed.

Personal liability involved in taking people out in the boat is another matter -- the condition of the vessel has a direct impact on this. The marina isn't involved in this type of liability, but it may be that insurance companies can't separate the two types of liability -- i.e. that in the marina setting, and that once underway.

Talk to your home owner's / renter's insurance broker/company. You may find out that you're covered as far as personal liability is concerned up to the limits on your homeowner's / renter's insurance.

Others here, more knowledgeable than I, will certainly offer better insight and advice.
i don't own a home. this boat is the biggest thing i own.
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post #10 of 127 Old 12-10-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: insurance/survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markwesti View Post
27x10=$270. that exceeds the cost of the boat ? OUCH ! My broker is State Farm I have had good luck with them . Perhaps you could have another sit down with them and emphasize the situation that you only need liability . But really a survey is not the end of the world . Case in point , a guy bought a sail boat that was next to me . The PO rarely came to the boat , it had sat there for about 7 yrs. The PO was a good guy and wasn't trying to hide anything . The new Cpt. didn't get a survey. I was helping him with some stuff , and I said open up that seacock . It got loose! It was found that there was a steel reducer! (finest HomeDepot) . Another case in point, years ago a boat caught fire a couple of slips down from me it started at the shore power plug on the boat . Boat was a total ,me I was ok thank you. So to wrap things up here a survey might of caught these things .
i have nothing personal against a survey, although i'd rather get it after i repair the known issues. it's a financial thing. in other words, i can't swing the extra $300 right now.
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