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Dog Ship 12-20-2013 08:25 AM

Survey say's.......
 
I thought I would start a new thread so this is kind of an extension of the "Surveying is not poetry" thread.

Wow, what a waist of time and money.
We received our survey report back yesterday and there were a lot of error's and omissions.
There was no mention of any sails and he completely missed the secondary anchor.
The anchor rode went from being 180' of 5/16" BBB to 1/4" chain of unknown length with no mention of the 400+ feet of 3/4' line.
Apparently, someone has changed all the through hulls from tapered ones to ball valves, although he did mention that the boat yard had just serviced them.
The description of the boat was a cut and paste from the cncphotoalblum's website.
He mentioned 2, 2lb fire extinguishers when there are 3, 4lb fire extinguishers in clear and plain view. He said there was no fume/vapor alarm system present when there is one.
And it goes on and on. He also missed a pile of stuff the boat yard has already gone over with me that will be fixed before she goes back in the water.
He did mention how he was impressed by the "high standard of maintenance" the boat had received over the years and that it was in "very good shape".
But here's the kicker, he placed a value on it of $25,000 and a replacement cost of,........what for it.......$135,000. My insurance broker and I had a good laugh about that.
This survey, for a 1981 C&C32 cost us $434.70 our annual insurance premium with a million dollar liability will be about half of the cost of the survey.
I sent a letter to my insurance provider with all of the corrections and omissions that I saw and could think of. They thanked me for that and said that they have had many similar issue's when dealing with surveyors. All they really need to know is that the boat isn't going to sink anytime soon and that they need an unbiased value placed on the boat.
So now I can go and spend thousands on moorage, Yeh!

Tim R. 12-20-2013 08:49 AM

Re: Survey say's.......
 
And exactly what are the qualifications required to work as a surveyor???

I would encourage anyone looking for a surveyor to check with locals to see who they might recommend and also SAMS.

mad_machine 12-20-2013 08:58 AM

Re: Survey say's.......
 
from the sounds of it.. I could make a living as a surveyer

svHyLyte 12-20-2013 09:00 AM

Re: Survey say's.......
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Ship (Post 1235186)
I thought I would start a new thread so this is kind of an extension of the "Surveying is not poetry" thread.

Wow, what a waist of time and money.
We received our survey report back yesterday and there were a lot of error's and omissions.
There was no mention of any sails and he completely missed the secondary anchor.
The anchor rode went from being 180' of 5/16" BBB to 1/4" chain of unknown length with no mention of the 400+ feet of 3/4' line.
Apparently, someone has changed all the through hulls from tapered ones to ball valves, although he did mention that the boat yard had just serviced them.
The description of the boat was a cut and paste from the cncphotoalblum's website.
He mentioned 2, 2lb fire extinguishers when there are 3, 4lb fire extinguishers in clear and plain view. He said there was no fume/vapor alarm system present when there is one.
And it goes on and on. He also missed a pile of stuff the boat yard has already gone over with me that will be fixed before she goes back in the water.
He did mention how he was impressed by the "high standard of maintenance" the boat had received over the years and that it was in "very good shape".
But here's the kicker, he placed a value on it of $25,000 and a replacement cost of,........what for it.......$135,000. My insurance broker and I had a good laugh about that.
This survey, for a 1981 C&C32 cost us $434.70 our annual insurance premium with a million dollar liability will be about half of the cost of the survey.
I sent a letter to my insurance provider with all of the corrections and omissions that I saw and could think of. They thanked me for that and said that they have had many similar issue's when dealing with surveyors. All they really need to know is that the boat isn't going to sink anytime soon and that they need an unbiased value placed on the boat.
So now I can go and spend thousands on moorage, Yeh!

If I were in your shoes and you live in a locale that allows for Small Claims Court actions, I'd spend the filing fee and see if I couldn't get the "Surveyor's" fee refunded. Based upon your representations, that "Survey" was entirely worthless (and I surely would not have sent it to an insurer!).

krisscross 12-20-2013 09:02 AM

Re: Survey say's.......
 
Very sloppy job. Makes you wanna question the value of a survey when you are buying a boat.

Faster 12-20-2013 09:19 AM

Re: Survey say's.......
 
We had a near identical experience last year for our insurance survey.

Quote:

But here's the kicker, he placed a value on it of $25,000 and a replacement cost of,........what for it.......$135,000. My insurance broker and I had a good laugh about that.
The 'replacement' value is what they think it would cost to build and equip that boat today.. so the $135K is not out of line on that basis. The $25K is, of course, disappointing and hurts to boot.

It would be one thing if an 'insurance' survey that took under an hour (and therefore obviously less than thorough) cost a reasonable $100-150.... but at at least 75% the cost of a 'real' survey it is, as I mentioned in the other thread, a rip-off.

I do think the insurance companies are to blame in this debacle too, though, as they don't make any differentiation between a new boat owner and people with 30 years or more experience.

Dog Ship 12-20-2013 09:22 AM

Re: Survey say's.......
 
Well, overall the survey came out in my favour given the value of the boat stated. I paid $25,000 for it two and a half years ago and it will be insured for that amount. The $135,000 replacement cost is laughable.
It was for insurance purposes and there was enough information in the report for the insurance company to offer me a policy.
There are no "requirements" to be a surveyor.
There are qualifications that one can furnish themselves with but there are no requirements needed to become a surveyor. Anyone who feels comfortable enough to do it, can. It is an unregulated, unlicensed and unaccountable industry.
It was a seven page report with one page dedicated to a disclaimer stating that he is not responsible for what is in the report. So there is also no accountability for what he say's and that is the norm.
Seeking my money back would be a waist of time.
You just suck it up and move on.

azguy 12-20-2013 09:23 AM

Re: Survey say's.......
 
I'd have a couple of comments:

Where did you find the surveyor..?

It sounds like you were not with the surveyor as he did his inspection, I would have been on his heals the entire time pointing out things he missed so they would all be officially part of the record.

I also would have brought all the deficiencies in his final report to his attention and made him make adjustments as needed.

Dog Ship 12-20-2013 09:30 AM

Re: Survey say's.......
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faster (Post 1235354)
We had a near identical experience last year for our insurance survey.



The 'replacement' value is what they think it would cost to build and equip that boat today.. so the $135K is not out of line on that basis. The $25K is, of course, disappointing and hurts to boot.

It would be one thing if an 'insurance' survey that took under an hour (and therefore obviously less than thorough) cost a reasonable $100-150.... but at at least 75% the cost of a 'real' survey it is, as I mentioned in the other thread, a rip-off.

I do think the insurance companies are to blame in this debacle too, though, as they don't make any differentiation between a new boat owner and people with 30 years or more experience.

When we saw the replacement cost figure I looked at my wife and said, "I'm going to drill a small hole somewhere and put the boat back in water".

Dog Ship 12-20-2013 09:33 AM

Re: Survey say's.......
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by azguy (Post 1235370)
I'd have a couple of comments:

Where did you find the surveyor..?

It sounds like you were not with the surveyor as he did his inspection, I would have been on his heals the entire time pointing out things he missed so they would all be officially part of the record.

I also would have brought all the deficiencies in his final report to his attention and made him make adjustments as needed.

The surveyor was recommended by the boat yard I am on the hard in, Stone's Marina in Nanaimo. I was present for the 45 minute survey.
Why would I go back to the guy, he obviously hasn't got a clue about what he is doing.


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