Survey say's....... - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 12-20-2013
Dog Ship's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dolphin Beach, B.C.
Posts: 544
Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Dog Ship is on a distinguished road
Survey say's.......

I thought I would start a new thread so this is kind of an extension of the "Surveying is not poetry" thread.

Wow, what a waist of time and money.
We received our survey report back yesterday and there were a lot of error's and omissions.
There was no mention of any sails and he completely missed the secondary anchor.
The anchor rode went from being 180' of 5/16" BBB to 1/4" chain of unknown length with no mention of the 400+ feet of 3/4' line.
Apparently, someone has changed all the through hulls from tapered ones to ball valves, although he did mention that the boat yard had just serviced them.
The description of the boat was a cut and paste from the cncphotoalblum's website.
He mentioned 2, 2lb fire extinguishers when there are 3, 4lb fire extinguishers in clear and plain view. He said there was no fume/vapor alarm system present when there is one.
And it goes on and on. He also missed a pile of stuff the boat yard has already gone over with me that will be fixed before she goes back in the water.
He did mention how he was impressed by the "high standard of maintenance" the boat had received over the years and that it was in "very good shape".
But here's the kicker, he placed a value on it of $25,000 and a replacement cost of,........what for it.......$135,000. My insurance broker and I had a good laugh about that.
This survey, for a 1981 C&C32 cost us $434.70 our annual insurance premium with a million dollar liability will be about half of the cost of the survey.
I sent a letter to my insurance provider with all of the corrections and omissions that I saw and could think of. They thanked me for that and said that they have had many similar issue's when dealing with surveyors. All they really need to know is that the boat isn't going to sink anytime soon and that they need an unbiased value placed on the boat.
So now I can go and spend thousands on moorage, Yeh!
__________________
We have three rules;
No screaming.
No bleeding on the sails.
No slobbering on the charts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 12-20-2013
Tim R.'s Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 1,539
Thanks: 1
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Tim R. is on a distinguished road
Re: Survey say's.......

And exactly what are the qualifications required to work as a surveyor???

I would encourage anyone looking for a surveyor to check with locals to see who they might recommend and also SAMS.
__________________
Tim R.
Out cruising
1997 Caliber 40LRC

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

-----------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 12-20-2013
mad_machine's Avatar
Sea Sprite 23 #110 (20)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Atlantic City, NJ
Posts: 3,105
Thanks: 5
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 2
mad_machine is on a distinguished road
Re: Survey say's.......

from the sounds of it.. I could make a living as a surveyer
Dog Ship likes this.
__________________
Art Haberland
__________________

In the end all that matters is how fully you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things that did not belong to you -buddha
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 12-20-2013
svHyLyte's Avatar
Old as Dirt!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,553
Thanks: 11
Thanked 84 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 6
svHyLyte is on a distinguished road
Re: Survey say's.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Ship View Post
I thought I would start a new thread so this is kind of an extension of the "Surveying is not poetry" thread.

Wow, what a waist of time and money.
We received our survey report back yesterday and there were a lot of error's and omissions.
There was no mention of any sails and he completely missed the secondary anchor.
The anchor rode went from being 180' of 5/16" BBB to 1/4" chain of unknown length with no mention of the 400+ feet of 3/4' line.
Apparently, someone has changed all the through hulls from tapered ones to ball valves, although he did mention that the boat yard had just serviced them.
The description of the boat was a cut and paste from the cncphotoalblum's website.
He mentioned 2, 2lb fire extinguishers when there are 3, 4lb fire extinguishers in clear and plain view. He said there was no fume/vapor alarm system present when there is one.
And it goes on and on. He also missed a pile of stuff the boat yard has already gone over with me that will be fixed before she goes back in the water.
He did mention how he was impressed by the "high standard of maintenance" the boat had received over the years and that it was in "very good shape".
But here's the kicker, he placed a value on it of $25,000 and a replacement cost of,........what for it.......$135,000. My insurance broker and I had a good laugh about that.
This survey, for a 1981 C&C32 cost us $434.70 our annual insurance premium with a million dollar liability will be about half of the cost of the survey.
I sent a letter to my insurance provider with all of the corrections and omissions that I saw and could think of. They thanked me for that and said that they have had many similar issue's when dealing with surveyors. All they really need to know is that the boat isn't going to sink anytime soon and that they need an unbiased value placed on the boat.
So now I can go and spend thousands on moorage, Yeh!
If I were in your shoes and you live in a locale that allows for Small Claims Court actions, I'd spend the filing fee and see if I couldn't get the "Surveyor's" fee refunded. Based upon your representations, that "Survey" was entirely worthless (and I surely would not have sent it to an insurer!).
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 12-20-2013
krisscross's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,442
Thanks: 22
Thanked 75 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 2
krisscross is on a distinguished road
Re: Survey say's.......

Very sloppy job. Makes you wanna question the value of a survey when you are buying a boat.
__________________
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
Plato
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 12-20-2013
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,604
Thanks: 67
Thanked 178 Times in 174 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Survey say's.......

We had a near identical experience last year for our insurance survey.

Quote:
But here's the kicker, he placed a value on it of $25,000 and a replacement cost of,........what for it.......$135,000. My insurance broker and I had a good laugh about that.
The 'replacement' value is what they think it would cost to build and equip that boat today.. so the $135K is not out of line on that basis. The $25K is, of course, disappointing and hurts to boot.

It would be one thing if an 'insurance' survey that took under an hour (and therefore obviously less than thorough) cost a reasonable $100-150.... but at at least 75% the cost of a 'real' survey it is, as I mentioned in the other thread, a rip-off.

I do think the insurance companies are to blame in this debacle too, though, as they don't make any differentiation between a new boat owner and people with 30 years or more experience.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)

Last edited by Faster; 12-20-2013 at 09:24 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 12-20-2013
Dog Ship's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dolphin Beach, B.C.
Posts: 544
Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Dog Ship is on a distinguished road
Re: Survey say's.......

Well, overall the survey came out in my favour given the value of the boat stated. I paid $25,000 for it two and a half years ago and it will be insured for that amount. The $135,000 replacement cost is laughable.
It was for insurance purposes and there was enough information in the report for the insurance company to offer me a policy.
There are no "requirements" to be a surveyor.
There are qualifications that one can furnish themselves with but there are no requirements needed to become a surveyor. Anyone who feels comfortable enough to do it, can. It is an unregulated, unlicensed and unaccountable industry.
It was a seven page report with one page dedicated to a disclaimer stating that he is not responsible for what is in the report. So there is also no accountability for what he say's and that is the norm.
Seeking my money back would be a waist of time.
You just suck it up and move on.
__________________
We have three rules;
No screaming.
No bleeding on the sails.
No slobbering on the charts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 12-20-2013
azguy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 537
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 3
azguy is on a distinguished road
Re: Survey say's.......

I'd have a couple of comments:

Where did you find the surveyor..?

It sounds like you were not with the surveyor as he did his inspection, I would have been on his heals the entire time pointing out things he missed so they would all be officially part of the record.

I also would have brought all the deficiencies in his final report to his attention and made him make adjustments as needed.
__________________
1988 C22 Owner
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 12-20-2013
Dog Ship's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dolphin Beach, B.C.
Posts: 544
Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Dog Ship is on a distinguished road
Re: Survey say's.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
We had a near identical experience last year for our insurance survey.



The 'replacement' value is what they think it would cost to build and equip that boat today.. so the $135K is not out of line on that basis. The $25K is, of course, disappointing and hurts to boot.

It would be one thing if an 'insurance' survey that took under an hour (and therefore obviously less than thorough) cost a reasonable $100-150.... but at at least 75% the cost of a 'real' survey it is, as I mentioned in the other thread, a rip-off.

I do think the insurance companies are to blame in this debacle too, though, as they don't make any differentiation between a new boat owner and people with 30 years or more experience.
When we saw the replacement cost figure I looked at my wife and said, "I'm going to drill a small hole somewhere and put the boat back in water".
__________________
We have three rules;
No screaming.
No bleeding on the sails.
No slobbering on the charts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 12-20-2013
Dog Ship's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dolphin Beach, B.C.
Posts: 544
Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Dog Ship is on a distinguished road
Re: Survey say's.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by azguy View Post
I'd have a couple of comments:

Where did you find the surveyor..?

It sounds like you were not with the surveyor as he did his inspection, I would have been on his heals the entire time pointing out things he missed so they would all be officially part of the record.

I also would have brought all the deficiencies in his final report to his attention and made him make adjustments as needed.
The surveyor was recommended by the boat yard I am on the hard in, Stone's Marina in Nanaimo. I was present for the 45 minute survey.
Why would I go back to the guy, he obviously hasn't got a clue about what he is doing.
__________________
We have three rules;
No screaming.
No bleeding on the sails.
No slobbering on the charts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Survey?????? I've never had one Rug7236 General Discussion (sailing related) 19 11-01-2013 11:23 PM
Insurance survey vs purchase survey RossC32 General Discussion (sailing related) 9 03-01-2012 05:05 PM
Survey or Not??? PorFin Boat Review and Purchase Forum 38 11-20-2007 03:21 PM
Should I Be There During Survey? FritzN Boat Review and Purchase Forum 20 06-04-2007 08:32 AM
Help! My survey is done!... Kacper Boat Review and Purchase Forum 46 03-22-2007 06:12 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:33 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.