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  #531  
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
yes you are missing something, unless on a huge time constraint you dont check into countries every month... like mentioned many times before when at sea or on some reef or anchorage where money is not needed or usefull you dont spend 500 or any for that matter, thats why cruising budgets done in a monthly manner like you would on land are not really objective...or that useful
I guess my definition of "cruising" and yours is different. To me cruising means cruising, not sitting in a anchorage - free or otherwise for months at a time. I could sit at anchor off Christmas Tree Island year round for free. My only costs could be food if I was willing to row ashore to the store. I could beg on Duval Street and drink Thunderbird. I could visit the Emergency Room and claim I was destitute when it came time to pay. I could reduce my costs further by fishing and lobstering off the boat. I know people for whom this is a lifestyle. No telephone. No insurance. No boat repairs, for example no bottom painting. Some save further by not spending money on personal hygiene. I'll bet I could do this on much less than $500 per month. Its not a life style I would choose. Your mileage may vary.

As far as monthly budgeting - I respectfully disagree with your point. I have months when I technically spend nothing - its pretty hard when crossing the Atlantic for a month to spend money. But on an annual basis I have a pretty good idea how things will average out. I also know the months when I will spend more - for example during my annual boat maintenance month - bottom paint alone for my boat is close to $500 (the paint, not the application.) The month I pay my boat insurance I am going to exceed $500. As much as I sail, and I have spent a week becalmed and drifting waiting for wind, a tank of diesel fuel is $100. I know of few sheltered anchorages where one can sail in and anchor and then sail back out again.

When I first started cruising four years ago my budget was $800 per month. Yes, I managed to live on it. But I could not visit museums, go to historical sites, and do the things I wanted to do that fit into my definition of why I went cruising in the first place. Fortunately my financial condition changed and I was able to up my monthly expenditures a bit. For the first year most of the additional money went into the "deferred maintenance" account. As I elaborate here $3000/mo cruising budget I think that $2,000 per month is a reasonable floor for annualized monthly expenses. This assumes that one actually wants to leave the United States and see some other countries.

My point in posting is not to annoy anyone but rather to show a different perspective. I was naive when I moved aboard to live full time. (I am still naive, just about different things!) I just met a new cruiser who was planning on taking his boat to New York City next month - February. I mentioned that the entire city, not to mention many of the harbors along the way would be iced in. He said "really,I didn't think of that."

Yes, I believe one can live aboard for $500 per month or less. After all you can eat Ramen Noodles three times a day for less then $2.00 a day. I just don't think most people would find it a rewarding lifestyle.

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  #532  
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

I wonder why it is that any time opposition to frugal minimalist existing is portrayed as an existence of less than honorable practice and verging on criminality?
I would be curious to know if the plain living Amish would also be viewed in the same light? they live without electric, running water,indoor plumbing, use wood for heating /cooking and are exempt from many laws/taxes and "civic duties " .
I tend to like that approach,I just practice it from a floating platform!
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  #533  
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
I wonder why it is that any time opposition to frugal minimalist existing is portrayed as an existence of less than honorable practice and verging on criminality?
I would be curious to know if the plain living Amish would also be viewed in the same light? they live without electric, running water,indoor plumbing, use wood for heating /cooking and are exempt from many laws/taxes and "civic duties " .
I tend to like that approach,I just practice it from a floating platform!
The funny thing is one of the richest persons I know pretty much lives like that all of the time. That's how he got rich.

He drives a ten year old car, looks like he bought his clothes from a thrift store, and owns over a hundred hotels.
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  #534  
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by svzephyr44 View Post
My point in posting is not to annoy anyone but rather to show a different perspective....Yes, I believe one can live aboard for $500 per month or less. After all you can eat Ramen Noodles three times a day for less then $2.00 a day. I just don't think most people would find it a rewarding lifestyle.
With respect , it's easy NOT to cruise on the proverbial $500/month. Spendng more money is not hard to do (assuming one has more). The point of this discussion is to explore ways to live on board frugally.

I do appreciate your real-world experience. If you'd like to contribute something positive to this thread perhaps you can explore why you were unable to maintain your low budget plans. That may help people learn from what you've done, and the choices you've made. That way we can decide whether we can make other choices.
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  #535  
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
I do appreciate your real-world experience. If you'd like to contribute something positive to this thread perhaps you can explore why you were unable to maintain your low budget plans. That may help people learn from what you've done, and the choices you've made. That way we can decide whether we can make other choices.
I would say, in no particular order, the following:

1) Things that broke that I did not choose to live without, e.g. working sails.
2) Things that wear out, e.g. bottom paint, running rigging
3) The desire to go new places and see new things, e.g. country clearances
4) Safety, e.g. going into a marina or mooring ball when a bad storm was forecast

I was casting no aspersions on those who want to live frugally. Nor is there necessary a link between living frugally and those who either don't know or don't care - like the guy with the beautiful new 45 foot powerboat with a 10 pound anchor and 6 feet of chain. I left that anchorage in a hurry.

To the threads points on my attitude, I suggest it cuts both ways. It seems to be a point of pride among some in this thread that they can live cheaply is if those of us who choose to spend more are in some way evil. I found it impossible to properly maintain and insure myself and my boat on $800 per month in addition to eating and so forth. Since my boat is a significant part of my financial assets I did not choose to forego insurance - nor would most of the marinas I visited nor some of the countries I entered permit me to dock or enter their country without it. I also chose a life style that included travel - about 4,000 to 5,000 NM per year. It would have been significantly less expensive if I had stayed put or moved the boat once or twice a year from cruising area to cruising area.

I have met a number of young people who are looking for an inexpensive living environment. I told them to purchase a $5,000 boat and rent a mooring ball. That is a heck of a lot cheaper than living on land. But I would not choose to solo a $5,000 boat across the Atlantic Ocean. Others might, I don't have that much courage.

Regards
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Last edited by svzephyr44; 01-30-2014 at 09:37 AM.
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  #536  
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by svzephyr44 View Post
I guess my definition of "cruising" and yours is different. To me cruising means cruising, not sitting in a anchorage - free or otherwise for months at a time. I could sit at anchor off Christmas Tree Island year round for free. My only costs could be food if I was willing to row ashore to the store. I could beg on Duval Street and drink Thunderbird. I could visit the Emergency Room and claim I was destitute when it came time to pay. I could reduce my costs further by fishing and lobstering off the boat. I know people for whom this is a lifestyle. No telephone. No insurance. No boat repairs, for example no bottom painting. Some save further by not spending money on personal hygiene. I'll bet I could do this on much less than $500 per month. Its not a life style I would choose. Your mileage may vary.

As far as monthly budgeting - I respectfully disagree with your point. I have months when I technically spend nothing - its pretty hard when crossing the Atlantic for a month to spend money. But on an annual basis I have a pretty good idea how things will average out. I also know the months when I will spend more - for example during my annual boat maintenance month - bottom paint alone for my boat is close to $500 (the paint, not the application.) The month I pay my boat insurance I am going to exceed $500. As much as I sail, and I have spent a week becalmed and drifting waiting for wind, a tank of diesel fuel is $100. I know of few sheltered anchorages where one can sail in and anchor and then sail back out again.

When I first started cruising four years ago my budget was $800 per month. Yes, I managed to live on it. But I could not visit museums, go to historical sites, and do the things I wanted to do that fit into my definition of why I went cruising in the first place. Fortunately my financial condition changed and I was able to up my monthly expenditures a bit. For the first year most of the additional money went into the "deferred maintenance" account. As I elaborate here $3000/mo cruising budget I think that $2,000 per month is a reasonable floor for annualized monthly expenses. This assumes that one actually wants to leave the United States and see some other countries.

My point in posting is not to annoy anyone but rather to show a different perspective. I was naive when I moved aboard to live full time. (I am still naive, just about different things!) I just met a new cruiser who was planning on taking his boat to New York City next month - February. I mentioned that the entire city, not to mention many of the harbors along the way would be iced in. He said "really,I didn't think of that."

Yes, I believe one can live aboard for $500 per month or less. After all you can eat Ramen Noodles three times a day for less then $2.00 a day. I just don't think most people would find it a rewarding lifestyle.

Fair winds and following seas
not trying to be mean but reading comp is your friend...notice I SAID WHEN OFFSHORE

OR sitting around on reefs or islands where money sometimes cant even be used

you actuallt stated the same thing I did, some months you know you will spend more than others when out in the atlantic hard to spend money

I dont know where we are disagreeing that much bud...ive read your paragraphs and nod a lot...we agree...so maybe we are saying it differently?

dunno

yes of course there are different ways of cruising but in my experience those that were on a huge time constraint or cruised FAST spent much more money

especially when the diesel becomes the primary method of propulsion

especially coastal cruising on a schedule is the easiest way to spend more money...simply put you do everything more

refueling, re supllying, anchoring, slips? panga rides, taxi or bus rides to and from customs, api, whatever, dinghy fuel, meals at the beach, and on and on

you simply spend more

so yeah I guess we agree on one point thats is if you want to hop from port to port or anchorage to anchorage your chances of spending much more than $500 increases exponentially

again I stress this is mostly dependant on your lifestyle previous to cruising AND where you cruise

I know for sure that I couldnt cruise for less than 500 a month on the california coast unless I did nothing but look at the beach...thats mostly cause of the way stuff is on the california coast

but saying you cant do this in french polynesia(non tahit areas) or in asia(non phuket type areas) or he red sea, or indian ocean is well wrong I guess at least to me...cause we have done it...

from sri lanka to maldives to yemen we maybe spent for 3 people with checkins and food for the trip less than $200 per person...that included a check in in maldives, one in yemen before heading for the red sea....and all fees related to trip...

we had alreadty gassed up in sri lanka... but didnt use much fuel to get to yemen...so again its whatever your budget can handle that will dictate where you can cruise...

peace
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  #537  
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
I wonder why it is that any time opposition to frugal minimalist existing is portrayed as an existence of less than honorable practice and verging on criminality?
I would be curious to know if the plain living Amish would also be viewed in the same light? they live without electric, running water,indoor plumbing, use wood for heating /cooking and are exempt from many laws/taxes and "civic duties " .
I tend to like that approach,I just practice it from a floating platform!
im not a fan of tv but there is a program called living amish...on tlc or something

the amish or a big majority nowadays have NOTHING to do with the old dutch of yesteryear

they are for all intents and purposes about as fake as a nyc rasta guy...

just sayin
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  #538  
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

I will add my 2 cents as someone who has voyaged 'on the cheap' for 7 years in the 90s.

You can live well on the sums talked about. You just stock up where things are cheap and avoid the dear stuff. I don't think we ever ate ramen noodles as a meal. But breadfruit, green bananas, edoes, yams, rice and eggs are always cheap and fairly healthy food. Eat what the locals eat if you can. My daily menu included filter coffee and wine [ stock up in the French islands ] but not radicchio or cauliflower [these were seriously expensive in the Caribbean islands in the 90s] . I had ice for my rum and lime juice with water. Coke was a treat! It cost more than the rum, top tip have a 5 gallon container handy and find out when the Clarks Court bay rum factory is having an open day.

I too would gripe at paying the Bahamas $300 for entry, but stay 9 months and that is $34 per month. Not too much for some great cruising territory. It balances out with the French islands where the cost is essentially zero per month.

Things we did.
Anchored out
Fixed things ourself.
Sailed rather than motored.
Sailed conservatively with the goal of not breaking anything, despite having a fairly bullet proof 38ft steel ketch we reduced sail on the transatlantics anytime we exceeded 6 knts.
My cats lived on fresh fish, not bought cat food and the sand box had sand in it not kitty litter. Mind you the bed had sand in it too!
Ate a lot of chicken legs! Usually the cheapest protein around.
Hired the odd car/scooter to explore but mostly used the local buses where we met lots of interesting and friendly people. This included inland Venuzuela a trip I would not do today.

Things we did not do.
Drink in bars.
Eat out in expensive yacht clubs but a roti in the Sweety Bird behind the book shop with a local juice was within budget.

Yes the boat did have some deferred maintenance items when I sold her. She certainly needed some new sails.

Those seven years when I was in my 40s were the best years of my life and the reason why I am back out again in retirement.

Last edited by TQA; 01-30-2014 at 10:00 AM.
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

Quote:
Originally Posted by svzephyr44 View Post
I would say, in no particular order, the following:

1) Things that broke that I did not choose to live without, e.g. working sails.
2) Things that wear out, e.g. bottom paint, running rigging
3) The desire to go new places and see new things, e.g. country clearances
4) Safety, e.g. going into a marina or mooring ball when a bad storm was forecast

I was casting no aspersions on those who want to live frugally. Nor is there necessary a link between living frugally and those who either don't know or don't care - like the guy with the beautiful new 45 foot powerboat with a 10 pound anchor and 6 feet of chain. I left that anchorage in a hurry.

To the threads points on my attitude, I suggest it cuts both ways. It seems to be a point of pride among some in this thread that they can live cheaply is if those of us who choose to spend more are in some way evil. I found it impossible to properly maintain and insure myself and my boat on $800 per month in addition to eating and so forth. Since my boat is a significant part of my financial assets I did not choose to forego insurance - nor would most of the marinas I visited nor some of the countries I entered permit me to dock or enter their country without it. I also chose a life style that included travel - about 4,000 to 5,000 NM per year. It would have been significantly less expensive if I had stayed put or moved the boat once or twice a year from cruising area to cruising area.

I have met a number of young people who are looking for an inexpensive living environment. I told them to purchase a $5,000 boat and rent a mooring ball. That is a heck of a lot cheaper than living on land. But I would not choose to solo a $5,000 boat across the Atlantic Ocean. Others might, I don't have that much courage.

Regards
I hope you werent reffering to me, my pride comes from simply having done it in the past and knowing that it can be done...so If I come as one upmanship or condescending im sorry

I just like to point out that it can be done...

your view seems to me to be very north america centric...no offence...with that comes the thought that thinking of your boat as a FINANCIAL ASSET and not simply a place to call home(temporary) like many frenchmen, spanish, italian cruisers for example mostly solo who never ever think of insuring their boats based on a philosphical principle...you now live every day as your last...enjoy! live life and hope for the best but be prepared for the worst?

you can call it frugal, cheap, or simply like me not an option....

its impossible to cruise with 500 a month and have insurance for offshore cruisng you just cant do it...

so I have learned to take advantage of situations or SEIZE THE DAY type attitudes instead of oh my god its so expensive to cruise I need more money, more insurance mor equipment, 2 liferafts, 2 ouboards 3 epirbs a spot messenger, 2 computers, 3 gps, 1 radar and one receiver, 3 vhfs, ais, ais receiver, chartplotter,

you know

CRUISING as we know it from looking at boats in marinas you know the west marina catalog boats...that cruising not:

pasasging, or VOYAGING as the french call it

its so easy to spend money...its making it thats hard...so learn to save and be frugal when well you can

if you like to not live in poverty or at poverty level when compared to land budgets then budegt more if you can

I guess thats all I was ever trying to point out...

fair winds too

the season is full blast down here...hopefully by april Ill be doing some voyaging to nicaragua and costa rica and panama for now

heres hoping and hopefully on $500 a month1

yeah!
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

Quote:
Originally Posted by svzephyr44 View Post
I would say, in no particular order, the following:

1) Things that broke that I did not choose to live without, e.g. working sails.
2) Things that wear out, e.g. bottom paint, running rigging
3) The desire to go new places and see new things, e.g. country clearances
4) Safety, e.g. going into a marina or mooring ball when a bad storm was forecast
I think you raise excellent points. Maintaining a floating home is not always very cheap, especially when big things break. And moving from country to country quickly (how you define cruising) will clearly blow the frugal budget. These issues have already been discussed earlier on. I think it's been agreed that to keep costs down you must:

- Avoid pushing boat and crew so as to limit breakages.
- DIY is the only way to go.
- Avoid motoring just to make distance.
- Plan to stay long periods of time in one place or region so as to reduce clearing-in costs.
- Avoid marina as much as possible.
- Stay away from expensive areas, particularly touristy areas.

On the issue of insurance, again if you go back earlier in this thread you will see that most people recognize the need to either go without insurance, or limit it to liability-only.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TQA View Post
I will add my 2 cents as someone who has voyaged 'on the cheap' for 7 years in the 90s.

You can live well on the sums talked about. You just stock up where things are cheap and avoid the dear stuff. I don't think we ever ate ramen noodles as a meal. But breadfruit, green bananas, edoes, yams, rice and eggs are always cheap and fairly healthy food. Eat what the locals eat if you can.
Thanks TQA. This gets back to the discussion about how to preserve food. When you find something that is cheap, stock up! But to do that you need some way of preserving. My approach is going to be drying food, but I'm clearly going to have to learn how to can as well. Already have the pressure cooker .

Quote:
Originally Posted by TQA View Post
Things we did.
Anchored out
Fixed things ourself.
Sailed rather than motored.
Sailed conservatively with the goal of not breaking anything, despite having a fairly bullet proof 38ft steel ketch we reduced sail on the transatlantics anytime we exceeded 6 knts.
My cats lived on fresh fish, not bought cat food and the sand box had sand in it not kitty litter. Mind you the bed had sand in it too!
Ate a lot of chicken legs! Usually the cheapest protein around.
Hired the odd car/scooter to explore but mostly used the local buses where we met lots of interesting and friendly people. This included inland Venuzuela a trip I would not do today.

Things we did not do.
Drink in bars.
Eat out in expensive yacht clubs but a roti in the Sweety Bird behind the book shop with a local juice was within budget.
Exactly! Great list.

What I'm taking away from this discussion is that there's no big secret regarding how to live inexpensively. The challenge (for some of us) comes in learning to live within those limits.
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