Price of boats... Wow!!! - Page 9 - SailNet Community
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post #81 of 109 Old 01-18-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

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Originally Posted by Shinook View Post
Regarding size, the Dana 24 has been discontinued and the molds are up for sale. Kindof sad, really

Also, there is another company that has bought the molds to two prior PSC boats, the Flicka 20 and Orion 27, and will be manufacturing new boats in the near future. I seem to recall an $85k pricetag associated with a new Flicka 20...
Was there a listing for the sales of these molds?

I thought it would be interesting to be able to find a mold to build boats.

I would have thought a Flicka would be much higher in cost.

Daniel
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post #82 of 109 Old 01-18-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

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I'm unclear why you disagree. I described factors limiting widespread adoption of old boat homes. You responded with an anecdote. It's not clear what a single datapoint proves.

If living on a boat year-round is actually practical, affordable and comfortable, how do you explain why so few people do it? I've offered one explanation (ie, it isn't, so people don't). Can you provide an alternative explanation?
I have lived aboard mostly in BC ,near 50 degrees north ,for most of the last 40 years, very comfortably. I have no desire to ever live on land again. My costs are around $300 a month. I haven't paid moorage in decades. I stay anchored.
My neighbours and clients say that their boat is the most comfortable dwelling they have ever lived in.
Some have the opposite experience. Why? Lack of insulation, and no good heat source. Many of my clients have tried living aboard uninsulated fibreglass boats , and found living in one is like living in a melting block of ice. The inevitable deck leaks don't help any. My clients all have steel boats sprayfoamed with about 2inches of urethane spray foam, the driest type of boat possible. I believe the main reason so many give up trying to live aboard is because their only experience with living aboard has been plastic, or much worse, wooden boats, with no insulation, nor adequate heat source.
I use an airtight woodstove, which dries out even the wettest interior in an hour or two. My steel hull and decks have no leaks .Welding is the best bedding compound ever invented.
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post #83 of 109 Old 01-18-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

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We seem to have more of a DIY restoration culture here and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And boats have gone up way more than the rate of inflation that is undeniable as shown in the numbers above.
Or maybe the rate of inflation is not what you are being told it is.

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Brad

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post #84 of 109 Old 01-18-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I have lived aboard mostly in BC ,near 50 degrees north ,for most of the last 40 years, very comfortably. I have no desire to ever live on land again. My costs are around $300 a month. I haven't paid moorage in decades. I stay anchored.
My neighbours and clients say that their boat is the most comfortable dwelling they have ever lived in.
Some have the opposite experience. Why? Lack of insulation, and no good heat source. Many of my clients have tried living aboard uninsulated fibreglass boats , and found living in one is like living in a melting block of ice. The inevitable deck leaks don't help any. My clients all have steel boats sprayfoamed with about 2inches of urethane spray foam, the driest type of boat possible. I believe the main reason so many give up trying to live aboard is because their only experience with living aboard has been plastic, or much worse, wooden boats, with no insulation, nor adequate heat source.
I use an airtight woodstove, which dries out even the wettest interior in an hour or two. My steel hull and decks have no leaks .Welding is the best bedding compound ever invented.
Good post Brent. Would love to see a picture of your airtight woodstove. Do you have the double-walled flue for it?

Regards,
Brad

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post #85 of 109 Old 01-19-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

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....Paulo- I understand your Eurocentric view but there are some basic realities you repetitively ignore. Cost of design is a small fragment of total costs over a production run. If production house thought using a particular design house would noticeably increase profitability they would do so. Just because we are on the west side of the pond doesn't mean our moms had stupid children.
Regards
What's wrong with you? Some days ago without anything to support it you called me racist (regarding jews and Blacks) and didn't apologize when I showed that I never had mentioned Jews or Blacks and that acusation was not only unfounded but ridiculous.

Now you pretend that I am calling stupid to the Americans

You say regarding Catalinas and Hunters that they design it in the house and don't use a main NA because that increases their profitability while European brands like Beneteau or Jeanneau (designed by major NA) sell in America more than Catalina or Hunter It seems to me that it would be natural that Americans would prefer American brands, all the things being the same.

What kind of logic is yours? Not only the sales of Catalina and Hunter are very residual in Europe as European brands sell in America more than american brands and you conclude that they are designed in the house to increase profibality?

My point is that the reason the two main American brands are less competitive face to their European competitors has not to do with build quality but with a worse design, that is made in the house and not by the best NA.

What is your point (besides insulting me) regarding the lack of competitiveness of Hunter and Catalina regarding their European competitors?

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 01-19-2014 at 01:04 PM.
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post #86 of 109 Old 01-19-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

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Yes, I call that a niche market. A rather small niche market. Boats in general, and sailboats in particular, are a luxury item, and a not terribly successful one at that. There is obviously some money to be made by sailboat manufacturers, but not much. People seem to be in the sailboat construction business for the same reason people buy sailboats: they love them. .....
I think its the very definition of "niche" market.
You can only be kidding People are on the boat building business to earn Money...and lots of it. Sure, when the first boat of a new brand is built by an amateur or even by a professional that makes 2 or 3 boats a year we can probably talk about love (even if he had to pay employes and make a living), but regarding big companies that make more than 1000 boats a year and are owned by multinationals? You can only be kidding.

That does not mean that they do not make good boats because otherwise they will be out of business but they are there for making Money.

Regarding your idea of a niche market I don't get it. Do you have any idea of the Money involved and related with pleasure boats and namely with sailboats?

Regards

Paulo
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post #87 of 109 Old 01-19-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

Paulo with all due respect all recreational boating motor and sail racing and cruising is a niche market. You are focusing on the sums involved. These in their entirely are less than perhaps 1% of the economy of other major sports such as our football or baseball or even golf. Less then a tenth of a hundredth of a percent of the population is involved in sailing at any level.
As regards the other issue you may want to reread the thread. I did not instigate those comments. It would appear they are held by others. I think you are are good soul but like some other teachers when you become overly pedantic you run the risk of being offensive without realizing it. None of us are perfect me most of all.

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post #88 of 109 Old 01-19-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

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So, a 31 foot Catalina, a production boat, will cost you roughly $171k
Makes me feel so much better for getting my Bluewater-ready 1974 Tartan 41 for well under 100k:
The Tartan 41 ? sailingwithkids.net

Especially as its a better boat than all this plastic crap.

And I am only barely in my 40's... not even curmudgeon material yet!


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post #89 of 109 Old 01-20-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

"Or maybe the rate of inflation is not what you are being told it is."

The rate of inflation is usually equated to the change in the Consumer Price Index, which is the price of specific basket of goods and services that is purported to reflect the "ordinary" purchases of "ordinary" Americans.

The price change of individual items in that basket may vary wildly from the overall CPI, which is why we see even ordinary things (like health care) can have price increases that routinely and significantly outstrip the rate of inflation.

But it may be that your own personal lifestyle doesn't track well with that of the "ordinary" American, and thus your own personal rate of inflation could be quite different.

And sailboats aren't even in the index ...
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post #90 of 109 Old 01-20-2014
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Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

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Makes me feel so much better for getting my Bluewater-ready 1974 Tartan 41 for well under 100k:
The Tartan 41 ? sailingwithkids.net

Especially as its a better boat than all this plastic crap.

And I am only barely in my 40's... not even curmudgeon material yet!
That has always two sides. Pick a 1974 boat and sail an old boat with all the reliability problems related with or bring it to its former glory an put it like a new boat. That means new sails, new rigging,shroud fixation replaced, new mast, new engine, the electrical system replaced, the electronics replaced, keel and rudder dismounted and brought to specs, shroud fixation, painting the boat. In the end you will spend more than what you have speeded in acquiring the boat and if you sell the boat you will found out that it will not sell for a lot more than what you have gave for it.

Buy a new boat and on the first two years you can have on the worst scenario a 30 or 40% loss in value.

Buy a 5 year old boat for 60% of its original value and you will have a loss of value for year of around 5% and you will not need to spend anything on the boat at least for two more years and then will have only to change sails and eventually running rigging (if you like to have a boat as new).

This, for the ones that can afford the initial cost, is by far the best solution in what regards money and quality.

Of course you will not have the top of the crop regarding performance and interior design but will have a much better boat than a 30 year old boat and one that in the end will not be more expensive, if you are going to keep it in tip top condition.

Regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 01-20-2014 at 02:37 PM.
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