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  #61  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by upshift View Post
You want an impossibility?

Hooking a drogue up to the sea container in a flat sea would never flip it. The physics for that doesn't add up. A real anchor would have given a downward force and could have rotated the container if the math worked out but the drogue would simply float alongside…
Actually that was one of the weird things he did that made sense the drogue would increase the current pull on the container and him sailing against the current would dislodge the impaled container from the sailboat
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  #62  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Going on deck to put up the storm jib when it would have been more prudent to deploy the drogue to stabilize the vessel prior to going forward in those seas also he had no jack lines. he clipped his safety line into the lifelines a proper jackline would have kept him on deck.
I would put the timeframe sometime in the last 5 years judging by the nice notebook computer on the Nav station when the vessel was first holed and the west system epoxy emergency repair kit he used to fix the hole
You put forth the challenge
I missed those two modern items.
West has been around for many years but if you saw some modern packaging that's different.

So then my back story is the guy did a similar trip 40 year before and he wanted to recreate the experience so didn't bring much new equipment. Maybe not the best decision but not unheard of.
Sort of like the Pardee's of maybe 10 years ago.

As far a drogues and jack lines and that stuff yah he could have done it better, so what is your point? None of those things directly contributed to his death.
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  #63  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by upshift View Post
You want an impossibility?

Hooking a drogue up to the sea container in a flat sea would never flip it. The physics for that doesn't add up. A real anchor would have given a downward force and could have rotated the container if the math worked out but the drogue would simply float alongside…
Wasn't supposed to flip it.
He was unable to sail away from the container as his boat and the container were stuck drifting together, so he changed the drift rate of the container so it would separate on it's own.
Probably the most realistic part of the movie actually.

Just like newhaul said.
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  #64  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

His boat received a second hole in the cabin from the dismasting. Personally I feel that he should have found a way to stop or at least slow down the ingress of water through that hole by maybe stuffing a cushion or something in it. Anything to give him some time to remove the water from below.

EDIT: That was a direct cause of his possible death because it was what sunk the boat.
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  #65  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
I missed those two modern items.
West has been around for many years but if you saw some modern packaging that's different.

So then my back story is the guy did a similar trip 40 year before and he wanted to recreate the experience so didn't bring much new equipment. Maybe not the best decision but not unheard of.
Sort of like the Pardee's of maybe 10 years ago.

As far a drogues and jack lines and that stuff yah he could have done it better, so what is your point? None of those things directly contributed to his death.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but a proper jackline would have kept him on the boat instead of expending all the energy he did to get back on the boat. Also earlier deployment of the drogue would have stabilized the vessel into the waves and he would have most likely not done the first 360 that led to the dismasting in the first place.
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

Someone asked if they really deepsixed the Cal39. The answer is no. I recently toured the Warner Bros. Studios in Burbank, while on vacation in California. Imagine my surprise when the studio tour brought us right by the boat featured in the movie, which was quite safely and properly perched on Brownell stands.
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  #67  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Wasn't supposed to flip it.
He was unable to sail away from the container as his boat and the container were stuck drifting together, so he changed the drift rate of the container so it would separate on it's own.
Probably the most realistic part of the movie actually.

Just like newhaul said.
I agree with that one. That was the only time in the movie I thought - "Wow, this is a smart guy."

That must have been the point at which the sailing consultant was fired.
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  #68  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by remetau View Post
His boat received a second hole in the cabin from the dismasting. Personally I feel that he should have found a way to stop or at least slow down the ingress of water through that hole by maybe stuffing a cushion or something in it. Anything to give him some time to remove the water from below.

EDIT: That was a direct cause of his possible death because it was what sunk the boat.
Actually did not see any below the waterline structural damage that would account for the length of time that the boat stayed afloat. It appeared to be a sudden and unexplainable failure of a thru hull fitting in the vee birth forward starboard area that caused the vessel to finally sink.if it had been a continual leak caused by debris breaking it the boat would have gone down much earlier during the night in the storm. Looked to be a sudden catastrophic failure.
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  #69  
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Forgive me if I'm wrong but a proper jackline would have kept him on the boat instead of expending all the energy he did to get back on the boat. Also earlier deployment of the drogue would have stabilized the vessel into the waves and he would have most likely not done the first 360 that led to the dismasting in the first place.

All true but lots of people used to clip into the life lines and doing so in this case while creating a close call and depleting his strength didn't directly lead to his final situation.

Deployment of the drogue might have been a good idea or it might had made things worse, no one knows again, it didn't directly contribute to his finally losing the boat.

My challenge is not that in hindsight he couldn't have done something differently. Every time I go on the water there's something in hindsight I could have done differently.

The challenge is to find something the "director" got completely wrong. Something that either couldn't possibly happen or something that was so stupid almost any reasonably competent sailor would not have done what Redford did that directly lead to losing the boat and eventually possibly his life.

The lesson of the movie was that an experienced tough, prepared and mentally strong sailor (as a proxy for any man) can have a series of bad luck and not survive, **** happens. It is not a fun concept. We prefer James Bond where we fantasize jumping out of airplanes with skies and don't rumple our suit.

I have to admit I don't really like the movie particularly either, it makes me uncomfortable too, even though I got SmackD to say he loves it.

My premise that the the reason it makes us uncomfortable is not because of any technical mistakes the director made, their are none of significance, but because we don't want to admit our fragility and that is uncomfortable.

If the director wanted to make the movie longer he could have had Redford with a sat phone that happened to be stored in the locker where the container hit.
He could have had Redford deploy the drogue earlier and the cleat tore out.

None of that matters. The only thing that matters is that Redford was strong, reasonably smart and very experienced and things still went pear shaped.

That is true it can and does happen.
The real question is if we want to spend 10 bucks to watch it happen and call it entertainment. For most of us apparently not.

If Redford had rolled the boat found his way to an island and made an imaginary friend out of a soccor ball called Wilson and built another boat and sailed away we would have loved it.

Who doesn't want to see indomitable will overcome insurmountable odds.

But just because we want to see it don't mean that is the way it always works out.

So basicly you guys got nothen!!!
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Last edited by davidpm; 01-30-2014 at 08:09 PM.
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  #70  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: One Last "All is Lost " thread

The loss of physical strength and taxing on his mental state would most certainly contribute when physically and mentally exhausted you rarely make good sound judgements and a properly deployed drogue would have prevented or at least minimized the broaching that caused the rollover and subsequent dismasting
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