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  #101  
Old 02-04-2014
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Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
IIRC, you still haven't sailed this boat yet. I'd suggest sailing her first before modifying the tiller length. You need to see how the helm is balanced. You might need the long tiller for leverage.

I know people who get sore shoulders from fighting weather helm with their tiller.

You can't assume that other boats of similar length should have a similar tiller - all boat sail differently. Even sister ships of the same design could sail differently due to different sail age/shape, rudder design and/or custom modifications, mast rake, boat pitch, etc. You need to learn about these things first, and the only way to know for sure is to sail her first.
Yes, one day out on an old wooden boat I go out on, we had some good strong winds, nothing crazy (20 knots) but I had to brace my legs across from me, and use my leg mussels. and this is on a 32 foot boat to boot. I think we should have reefed, or at least put the centerboard down. but I was just a deckhand at the time so I just enjoyed it!
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  #102  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: why so long?

Not trying to sell you on the wheel, I'm a tiller man myself, but I stumbled over this and wondered if you had seen it. Lots of pics of different steering gear.

Quadrant
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  #103  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manatee View Post
Not trying to sell you on the wheel, I'm a tiller man myself, but I stumbled over this and wondered if you had seen it. Lots of pics of different steering gear.

Quadrant
thanks. no i haven't. i will check it out. you, sir, are a wealth of information!
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  #104  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: why so long?

At your service, sir.

Librarian/Research Assistant at the Great Library of Alexandria is my dream job.
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"The skipper should be the calmest person on board.
It is good for the morale of those around you. However, if everyone around you is frightened then be aware of the possibility that they know something you donít."

~~Dylan Winter,
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  #105  
Old 02-06-2014
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Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manatee View Post
At your service, sir.

Librarian/Research Assistant at the Great Library of Alexandria is my dream job.
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  #106  
Old 02-07-2014
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Re: why so long?

we ask ourselves, when we get in a fix, what would popeye do in a tight spot like this? he'd race for his true love, and easily win it, in an all spinach can with a mast stuck in it.

lol. love that line.

the more i read, and see what other ideas are out there, the more i think a chain drive set up, as i suggested above, would be great for a DIY set up. i was doing some thinking about how i would design it and i think that the chain sprocket on the rudder post should be between 4 and 6 times the size of the one on the shaft that passes through the pedestal. that would be 1 to 1.5 turns of the wheel from 'lock to lock', assuming that you don't need the rudder to turn more than 45 degrees to each side.

is that a logical assumption? should i narrow that up a bit, since the rudder stalls before 45 degrees?

anoter question. i have been using 1.5 turns from lock to lock as a base-line because it was suggested. however, i'm not sure why one turn lock to lock wouldn't be good. i would think it would give a similar feel, to the wheel, as you have with a tiller.

cost-wise, you'd be looking at no more than 40 bucks for the sprockets, maybe less. another 20 for bearings. around 100 for the mitre gears, where the wheel shaft meets the vertical shaft in the pedestal. 80 bucks for a decent non o-ring motorcycle chain. maybe less. it could be a fairly short chain, compared to one used on a motorcycle.

maybe another 40 for misc materials. you could probably do it for 250 plus the cost of a used wheel on ebay. i have seen some of them go fairly cheaply. so, maybe 300, a little over or a little under. using a cable set up would be cheaper and easier to build but i like this idea because it's all 'hard' parts. no cable. then again, with proper maintenance, cable systems last, dependably, for a long time. maybe the 'hard part' advantage wouldn't really offset the cost difference.
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  #107  
Old 02-07-2014
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Re: why so long?

Good ol' bicycle tech: "The bicycle was the last advance in technology everybody understands. Anybody who can ride one can understand how it works." -- Stewart Parker, Spokesong

Considerations:

Should be just about bulletproof mechanically.
Harder to turn the wheel (subject to wheel diameter).
Snappier response to steering input (could be good or bad).
Less 'fine-tuning' the rudder position.
Unknown amount of feedback through the wheel (I know Masefield speaks of "the wheel's kick" so there must be some, but how to gauge it?)

"Sea-Fever"

I must down to the seas again,
to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship
and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel's kick and the wind's song
and the white sail's shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea's face,
and a grey dawn breaking.

I must down to the seas again,
for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call
that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day
with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume,
and the sea-gulls crying.

I must down to the seas again,
to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull's way and the whale's way
where the wind's like a whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn
from a laughing fellow-rover
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream
when the long trick's over.

By John Masefield (1878-1967). (English Poet Laureate, 1930-1967.)
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It is good for the morale of those around you. However, if everyone around you is frightened then be aware of the possibility that they know something you donít."

~~Dylan Winter,
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  #108  
Old 02-07-2014
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Re: why so long?

Huh ? If you can think all that through, you can build it. After you do, you can give yourself a Grade A to F like in school and give us pictures please ! (smile)
How about Atv or motorcycle sprockets & chains ?

Another not so obvious question, that seems obvious. Which way will you turn the wheel to turn
to Port, to Starboard ? (compared to your Tiller ) -Unless you have covered this in your 11 page discussion. It may take some getting used to.

Last edited by sidney777; 02-07-2014 at 08:42 PM.
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  #109  
Old 02-07-2014
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Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manatee View Post
Good ol' bicycle tech: "The bicycle was the last advance in technology everybody understands. Anybody who can ride one can understand how it works." -- Stewart Parker, Spokesong

Considerations:

Should be just about bulletproof mechanically.
Harder to turn the wheel (subject to wheel diameter).
Snappier response to steering input (could be good or bad).
Less 'fine-tuning' the rudder position.
Unknown amount of feedback through the wheel (I know Masefield speaks of "the wheel's kick" so there must be some, but how to gauge it?)

"Sea-Fever"

I must down to the seas again,
to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship
and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel's kick and the wind's song
and the white sail's shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea's face,
and a grey dawn breaking.

I must down to the seas again,
for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call
that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day
with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume,
and the sea-gulls crying.

I must down to the seas again,
to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull's way and the whale's way
where the wind's like a whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn
from a laughing fellow-rover
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream
when the long trick's over.

By John Masefield (1878-1967). (English Poet Laureate, 1930-1967.)
lol. i guess it is bicycle tech. i was thinking motorcycle, but that part isn't much different, is it? it is true. not many machines more bulletproof than a simple one speed bicycle.
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Last edited by captain jack; 02-07-2014 at 08:45 PM.
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  #110  
Old 02-07-2014
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Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney777 View Post
Huh ? If you can think all that through, you can build it. After you do, you can give yourself a Grade A to F like in school and give us pictures please ! (smile)
How about Atv or motorcycle sprockets & chains ?
motorcycle sprockets and chain is what i was thinking. you can buy sprockets and chain at the local tractor place, cheaper. but motorcycle components, including the chain, are tougher. for instance, you can buy 10 feet of 530 chain for 15 bucks, at the tractor place. a much shorter length of the same size chain, specifically for motorcycles, would be around 80 bucks. but the motorcycle chain is designed to take the shock of sudden acceleration. the tractor chain isn't. i used to replace my chains with the tractor chains as it was cheaper but real motorcycle chain lasts tree times as long. so, i don't do that any more.

oh, i can definately build it. i built my own chopper. a wheel set up like this should be a piece of cake. i might just do it, too. but that's for after i get her sailing and try shortening the tiller, first. more important things for right now. however, since the weather has been keeping me from working on her much, lately, i am researching and planning for the future. waste no time, i always say. even the time spent taking a crap should be productive. if your body isn't active, at the moment, your mind should be.
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The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do.---Captain Jack Sparrow


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Last edited by captain jack; 02-07-2014 at 08:42 PM.
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