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  #21  
Old 07-05-2005
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windship has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Marine Grade Plywood?

To me, it seems that "if you can''t afford the materials then you can''t afford to build this boat". and if this is true, how are you going to afford other marine items.
Are you going to use plastic cleats instead of metal ones? Are you going to use cotton line made for hanging your pants on instead of the proper cordage? Ete, etc.
Do some research then take the money you have and buy an existing, already built, brand name sailboat and go sailing.

Dennis
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  #22  
Old 07-05-2005
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Marine Grade Plywood?

Thanks for the advice windship... but in my case the building is more important than the sailing. I''m weird that way.

I''ll have to research on the price of marine grade plywood... but quite simply, if it''s $200 a sheet, then it''s a no go for me. I''ll end up using less expensive materials and compensating as best I can. If the boat doesn''t last me 20 years, then so be it. I''ll build another. Probably build another anyway... just for giggles!

I''m not starting until next spring/summer, so no hurry. I have plenty of time to look at designs and research materials. There''s no need to rush matters.

Through these discussions, I''ve gotten a much closer idea of what I''m interested in based on the uses I plan on making of the boat in question. I''ve found it very useful. My initial ideas have undergone extensive revision... I''ve been given some wonderful ideas to work with... and I''ve refined my ideas of the boats purpose. Neat stuff and great progress being made.

I''m not going for a "cross the Atlantic", "weather any storm", etc. etc. I''d be far more likely to want a water-born RV, with a fairly shallow draft and perhaps the ability to be outright beached if need be. I strongly suspect much of my sailing will be done in sight of shore most of the time. Not 5 feet from the beach, mind you... but not 20 miles out either. Alot of interesting things to see... but not if you''re too far away to see them... and not if your boat can''t go in close if need be.

I''m getting there... and I''m sure I''ll be bothering this forum with many largely stupid questions in the future.
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  #23  
Old 07-05-2005
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Marine Grade Plywood?

Perhaps I''ve not been looking in the right place... but what I''ve found so far is that I can get decent quality exterior grade plywood 4''x 8'' 1/4 inch thickness for about $10 a sheet.

So far, the cheapest, bottom of the line marine grade ply in the same thickness has been $62 per sheet then you''d have to add substantial shipping costs too.

Also, I''ll note that I''ve found many descriptions of successful use of exterior grade plywood in home made boats of all shapes and sizes.

At this point, I''m inclined heavily toward the exterior grade plywood due to cost concerns... also, the use of non-marine ply doesn''t seem to have slowed many others down.

Perhaps I will yet find an inexpensive source for marine ply.

What price per sheet of 1/4 inch thickness should one expect to pay? Perhaps I''ve only hit high-priced websites?
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  #24  
Old 07-05-2005
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dman is on a distinguished road
Marine Grade Plywood?

Windship It`s like a comedy of sorts.We seem to go through one of these posts every few months.The people looking for advice have it all figured out.Vastbinder after you have built the boat the real money comes in.The only thing that you will learn is that everything is expensive and you will be broke.You better get at least 2 more jobs and then you won`t even have time to build anything.I won`t talk you off the ledge anymore.JUMP.Do it all up and get back to us with some pics.
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  #25  
Old 07-06-2005
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Marine Grade Plywood?

Didn''t know you could post pics here...
we''ll see..

Of course you have the same thread every few months. You get new folks who didn''t see it last go through and they have some of the same questions... and need the same answers.
It''s the nature of these type of boards.

There is a tremendous amount of money to be saved when one is willing to do the work themselves. I am quite familiar with this seeing as I''m an artisan of sorts (I''ve made middle ages armour as a business in the past), and I''ve mixed, poured, and finished my own concrete (sidewalks and such), and any number of other projects.

Most people will not do these things or even have any desire to do so... but it is a simple fact that in most cases, the materials are only about 10% or less of the total cost of a finished item. IF one is willing to work and learn, one can do things on a much tighter budget.

If I can post pics here, I''d be happy to, though I will note that, as I said, I''m not looking to start this project until next year. I appreciate all the comments and here''s hoping next year goes well for me.
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  #26  
Old 07-06-2005
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Marine Grade Plywood?

Quote "Of course you have the same thread every few months. You get new folks who didn''t see it last go through and they have some of the same questions... and need the same answers. It''s the nature of these type of boards" It is the nature of inexperienced people not to listen to the advice that more experienced people are giving that seems to be happening more often than not.IMHO people that build/design sailboats should sail first,it only makes sense,but when you see poorly designed boats it makes you wonder.There are boat hulls laying around from coast to coast and this should be a clue as well.Some people build for ego others for a form of meditation.....etc.The bottom line is that it is the most expensive way to go and if you can afford to throw away many thousands of dollars in your pursuit than boatbuilding is for you.You may be the greatist artisan ,working with concrete....but by your own admission you are no boatbuilder/designer.Thinking one relates to the other is apples to oranges.I am not telling you to stay away from boatbuilding if you are determined,however,you have years of research to do on costs,construction.....and when you are done you will have the money for your marine plywood which any novice builder would use. Good luck with your studies
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  #27  
Old 07-06-2005
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Marine Grade Plywood?

dman, I beleive we shall have to agree to disagree.

A few note applicable to my particular case:
I don''t intend to design the boat from scratch, only to personalize an existing "tried and true" design;
My experience working with materials goes far beyond concrete... the lamination of plywood into specific curves and shaped happens to be one such area;
and
Costs are greatly different if one doesn''t buy all their materials as finished products from the boating store.

Good Sir, your''s is the voice of negativity which turns one away with "I can''t". Nothing ever came of such.

Thank you for your advice. I choose to disagree in many ways.

Happy Sailing to you!
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  #28  
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Marine Grade Plywood?

I`m not looking to start an argument Vastbinder but take it from me I`ve been there.There is a great difference in negativity and reality.I will give you an example of one such project.I bought a hull and a bunch of gear for 75k,I had 300K worth the rceipts.I thought I was doing alright on that deal and then spent another 40k on this and that.The boat was no where near finnished when my finaces started to become taxed.I then sold the boat for approx. 60K to try and wash my hands from the whole mess.Being a journeyman machinist and owning a machineshop,as well as having a steel yacht,I will guarantee you that there is nothing I can`t build or weld out of metal.This is where the problems arise(ignorance to the lack of general knowledge of marine expenses) I know this project you are taking on is far less than this but the same rules apply.I never say "i can`t" do most things but I can`t afford to waste anymore more money messing with boats.We have come full circle on this thread where you are now going back to construction grade plywood,so what have you learned?Do you want to put a boat together with your name on it,and be poorly constructed?There is nothing worse no matter what it is having your name come up in a conversation saying what you have or had built is trash.For certain things it is better to not have tried,than to have tried and failed.I might have a reason for the negativity(thousands of dollars down the drain) and that money could of been much better spent on family.It is one thing to spend your time doing something you like but going broke doing it is quite another and then to have your creation considered worthless by the boat buying public should you choose to sell it.BTW look through ebay with reguards to homebuilt boats,it`s a firesale.It`s been a long time since my boating disaster and my figures are probably off somewhat on my boat`s prices however it`s close enough for someone to shake their head.
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  #29  
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Marine Grade Plywood?

dman...

No argument and no hard feeling on my end. I really DO appreciate the advice you and others have given me.

Sorry to hear about the troubles you had with boat building.

I can''t begin to get into that kind of trouble as I don''t begin to have that kind of money. I will be left with buying the best grade of plywood I can find in my price range. Is it the best idea... likely not, but it''s what I can work with.

Regards the boat... it''ll be almost a replica of a time honored and extensively used design, so it''ll sail... maybe not the best, but it''ll sail. If it doesn''t last more than a season... it wouldn''t be that big an expense or bother for me to strip the entire hull off and put on a new one.

If all else fails, I''ll stick pontoons under it and float away just like that on the SS Junk-Heap! ;-) (and don''t think I wouldn''t do it either!)

I''m doing this for fun and hopefully to get to do some fairly minor sailing. So, for me, it doesn''t have to be perfect or last forever.

Once again, and I stress... I DO appreciate AND listen to the advice you guys give. I just don''t have the finances to apply all of it, so I plan to do the best I can with what''s available.

Good Luck! and really, no argument here... no hard feelings...

I''ll try to share pictures if it''s possible next year. This year there''s the "slap-together" dinghy currently in progress. (the dinghy is half for fun and half to test the materials and construction techniques)

Lastly... on an unrelated note: dman, isn''t mild steel just the most wonderful stuff (other than rusting)? I mean, with some judicious hammering, welding, and rivetting, you can get it to do just darn near anything you want! (I''ve been an armourer for about 20 years now)

Happy Days and Good Sailing!
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  #30  
Old 07-06-2005
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windship has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Marine Grade Plywood?

Vastbinder,
Don''t know why people ask for advise when they know they''ll not except it or build boats the way you describe but hey, good luck to you and remember, the pictures of the boat after she is built will preferably be of her floating.
In the water.

Dennis
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