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  #31  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

There are insurance companies out there that will give you liability without a survey. I believe that Progressive does not require it. Generally some non marine insurance companies don't require it. If it is a trailer sailor, some get coverage under there home owners. I have heard others getting just a generally liability coverage sometimes with an out of the water photo, so you can see the whole keel. Keep in mind you boat may not be worth much, but others around you are. That is why liability is important. And if your boat sinks, even a small trailer sailor will cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to recover and re-mediate depending on where it happens.

As for shady deals, yes they are out there. I don't think they are the majority, but in the lower price range it seems to happen more often. It may not be intentional either. As for needing a pre-purchase survey for me around $10,000 is close to what I would be willing to spend. Remember it will only take one of the big items to cost about what the boat is worth. Certainly a new motor (if inboard) will cost at least $10,000 to have replaced. Rigging is going to be at least a couple of thousand, and sails more than that. While some of these can be done for less. It takes some knowledge to do it successfully. So if a $500 survey prevents you from from buying money pit it could save you a lot.
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  #32  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

A survey could also pay for itself by pointing out something that needs to be repaired and thus negotiated from the final price.
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  #33  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azguy View Post
If you ever hope to spend a night in a marina, and there will come a time you need to, you'll need $300k in liability, so get it now.

About the survey, only the craziest person alive would buy a boat without hauling it of the water to see what the bottom looks like.... so you may as well get a survey while you're at it IMHO.
Hello, I'd like to introduce myself as the craziest person alive!!!! Call Guiness and the TV stations, I want to milk my 15 minutes of fame.

I've bought two boats and didn't get a survey or haul out either one of them before purchase.

I may have spent some time in the water checking them out but that might take away my new title of Craziest Person Alive!!!!

I keep my boat in a marina, I move my boat to other marinas during regattas and have never been asked for proof of insurance. The world is a big place and things aren't done the exact same way they are done in parts of the US, thank goodness!

To rant a bit, I deal with charter guests from all over the world but mainly US citizens. Many are astounded that they can choose their own level of responsibility/safety and not have an agent of law enforcement chasing them down with a ticket book. You want to run around in the dinghy without a PFD, light, flare, noisemaker, etc. go ahead. Nobody will bother you. You want to put your kids in their without PFDs, go right ahead. You want to take a case of beer with you to drink on the way, fine. I'm not saying that I agree with not being as safe and prudent as possible at all times, I am saying that there are many places that still let a person choose their own destiny without heavy regulation of behavior. I've read posts about the water cops in FL doing all kinds of stops and searches, checking Y valves, expired safety gear and anything else they can think of. It's hard for me to imagine getting lulled into thinking that is normal. I'm not sure I could assimilate back into that type of society despite all the flaws of the society I find myself in currently. Rant over!

Last edited by FarCry; 01-30-2014 at 02:48 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

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Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
there is an insurance thread that someone posted about risk /exposure etc.basically it showed your more likely to win the lottery than actually require the coverage you paid for.
I bought my C25 in October, 2011 and I paid $400 in insurance the first year I owned my boat. I spent at least one day of just about every weekend out there cleaning, polishing, repairing, upgrading, inspecting, etc. When I wasn't out there or at work, I was sewing new slipcovers, refinishing pieces that I brought home, patching sails, etc. in my living room. I lost track of how many hours, and how much money, I put into that boat. Almost exactly one year to the day after I bought her, Hurricane Sandy totaled her, and the insurance company paid up. I guess, to you, I hit the f***'ing lottery. To me, I watched many, many hours away from my family and friends get towed away to a scrap yard. But, on the plus side, the insurance company paid us what we had agreed (when the policy was written) the boat was worth, and that was more than the dollars (though not the labor) I had put into her. If that had been due to some pompous jack A$$ who thought he was "judgment proof" because he couldn't afford to fix my boat, I'd have made sure he couldn't do that to anyone else.
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Last edited by jimgo; 01-30-2014 at 02:27 PM.
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  #35  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

Simple; Survey no at least liability insurance yes. I pay a Benjamin a year but better than dragging anchor one time and hitting another boat even minimal scratching can cost many hundreds to repair properly I would rather just sail away and let my insurance do the court and paying for the repairs I've carried insurance on cars and boats for over 30 years and never needed it but the one time I do without a shark will bite my rode in half and I will sink a hundred k boat and in that case I'm liable for the cost just not worth the risk to me.
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Last edited by newhaul; 01-30-2014 at 03:17 PM.
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  #36  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
The argument about the survey being free is a great story to tell if your a surveyor trying to sell your services using fear.
however, I ask again. do you guarantee that, if so what specically would that guarantee look like in print.
you forgot the third reason for not getting a survey - I'm just as if not more capable of determing the condition of a vessel and have my own interests at the forefront without any conflict of interest or hidden agenda or concern of upsetting possible future "work " by being truthful.
and in the end yes,it is still my money.
I'm not a surveyor- just someone who can see the value, based on his own experience. YMMV.
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  #37  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

I didn't get a survey when I bought my boat. I saw there was some work that needed to be done and didn't worry too much about buying it without one.

But,

Once I started looking for a marina, most (if not all) require insurance on hand. Called BoatUS and they required a survey so then I got one. Once the boat is back on its trailer, I'll adjust the insurance to show it's not on the water, do some refit, then get a new survey to show its updated state.
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  #38  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

joe, there are folks who are judgement proof. For real.

And while it might be satisfying to break their legs, those same weasels will then sue YOU for everything you're worth.

It used to be possible to just go to a bar, pay a guy a couple hundred bucks, and get the job done with impunity. But these days? Good help is hard to find, and most of the guys in the bar are undercover agents getting paid to entice you.

Kind of a shame, when you consider what a cooler full of used body parts is worth these days.
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  #39  
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

Joe, it wasn't clear that you were quoting someone else. Half a sentence and no open/close quotes will lead to confusion, it is that simple.

the mods are always around, if you need one click the red triangle with the exclamation point in it and sooner or later, they'll appear.

I made and make no comment on whether violence is proper or improper, advocated or protested. I only commented on judgement-proof folks, and the great difficulty in hiring good help these days.

As it is sometimes said, "If you meet the Bhudda standing in the road, you must kill him."
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  #40  
Old 01-30-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertluster View Post
This kinda sounds like my attitude/plan. Insurance has it's place, but is often for people who don't want to be responsible for themselves.
I'm glad to hear that your philosophy is based on "being responsible for yourself".

So if we are both in an anchorage and a storm catches us both by surprise and your 10k boat drags anchor and holes my 100k boat and sinks it just exactly how do you propose that you are going to do the responsible thing?

If you have a plan to set things right I'm good with your responsible for yourself idea.
If you have no plan to set things right your philosophy might be more accurately be represented as looking out for yourself and first and screw everyone else.

Of course the first way of presenting the philosophy sounds nicer while the second way may be what it ends up being in a practical sense.

That being said sometimes you have to do what you have to do and if you can't afford insurance I sure wouldn't want to imply that you shouldn't sail.
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Last edited by davidpm; 01-30-2014 at 10:21 PM.
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