10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory? - Page 8 - SailNet Community
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post #71 of 75 Old 02-02-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

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Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
guess what else, I don't pay for health insurance either!
YOU are paying it for me! through the VA, 100% for life, no copay,free meds,glasses you name it ,and a service connected disability as well! God bless America ,sure glad I got that 2 year Korea deployment, it sucked being there, but sure panned out in the long run.
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see ya on the bay tough Guy.
Joe;
I don't need substance to form a personal opinion of someone...but since you asked - here's the part where I went from 'I don't agree with him' to 'I don't respect him'.
Honestly, up until this point, I was interested in your point of view. When you cut through the wide-reaching animosity towards the world at large, you made some interesting points, and some shrewd analyses of the insurance situation as a whole.
However, when a veteran throws a line like this at a civilian, all the basis (in my mind, anyway) that afforded the vet some level of automatic respect goes out the window.

That's my only point.
I don't need to continue this conversation, but if you'd like to, PM me, and let's move it somewhere else so we don't continue to hijack the OP's legitimate questions with our discussion.

Andy
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post #72 of 75 Old 02-02-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

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As far as surveys go, if you don't need one for the insurance, don't get one. Buy Don Casey's book, get permission to spend the day on the prospective boat, buy a six-pack, a bag of ice, and make yourself a couple PB&J sandwiches. Spend the day getting close to your new boat. If you can't find anything that makes you worried, don't worry. If you can't negotiate a lower price without a survey, you're not a very good negotiator. (sorry BLJ)
No need to apologize. Your interesting point above brings up a couple of questions which also play into the survey/no survey question:
What is your time worth?
Are you someone who likes working on things and understands how they are supposed to work, and can inspect a boat and actually know what you are seeing?
You'd be amazed how many people can't, and maybe slightly less amazed at how many who can't, but think they can.

Regarding that "what is your time worth?" question- a good pre-purchase survey (not an insurance survey or appraisal survey- whole different kettles of fish. boatpoker has a great explanation on his great website: My fee Schedule and why marine surveys cost what they do ) on a 30-35' boat should take at least 3 hours.


I value my spare time at $150/hr. that is what the little spare time I have is worth to me. So, if I am going to inspect a boat in Bayfield, for example, 3 hours away, it is gonna cost 6 hours of travel, plus 2-4 hours of poking around- that is near enough to$1500 of my time to do something that someone else, who is likely better at it than I am, would charge half that or less. I know I know, that $150 spare time value is imaginary. But it isn't, really. If you have to do your DIY survey on a workday, you've lost a day that needs to be made up, that has to come out of your spare time- your spare time always has value.

I like kicking around boat yards and checking out boats, because that is the kinda guy i am. I can fumble my way through most boat systems and can likely figure out what i need to know- but as hard as it is to believe, not everyone is like me.

So, if you don't like that sorta stuff, if you are a clean hands sailor, (lots of them out there- it is why yards stay in business) how good is your self-survey going to be, and how much do you NOT want to do it?


Regarding your assertion: "If you can't negotiate a lower price without a survey, you're not a very good negotiator."

Of course you can negotiate a lower price- but a survey in hand will allow you to negotiate the LOWEST price. Bear in mind when a survey is occuring- as a condition of sale.
You have already negotiated the best price, subject to survey. Then the surveyor finds something you missed, or something you didn't think about or found an elevated moisture reading around every stanchion that you didn't notice when you were jumping up and down on the foredeck during your pre-purchase inspection.
A survey that notes deficiencies re-opens the negotations... and there are always deficiencies.
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post #73 of 75 Old 02-02-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

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I like kicking around boat yards and checking out boats, because that is the kinda guy i am. I can fumble my way through most boat systems and can likely figure out what i need to know- but as hard as it is to believe, not everyone is like me.

So, if you don't like that sorta stuff, if you are a clean hands sailor, (lots of them out there- it is why yards stay in business) how good is your self-survey going to be, and how much do you NOT want to do it?
Your point is very important.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned before is that even very experienced professionals can make poor decisions on their own potential boat they would never make on a customers boat.
If fact due to their experience it may be easier for them to underestimate costs.

I have seen pro's fall in love with a boat because of the pedigree, lines, low price etc and convince themselves they can rectify all the faults quickly and cheaply.
If it was a clients boat they would have given an accurate appraisal of the costs and condition.

But because it was their own dream they were particularly convincing and capable of fooling themselves.

There is something about your own potential boat that makes otherwise level headed guys go all gooey.
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post #74 of 75 Old 02-02-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

aelkin-
respectfully I'm not interested in automatic respect.
I was attempting to represent that I am not a complete uncaring ass without regard for others by giving an example of my voluntary military service. apparently I missed my mark with that.
as for serving almost anyone can,they are always looking for new talent. at 28 it was a bit of a change, but nobody forced me and the check never bounced.
now back to our regularly scheduled topic already in progress.
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post #75 of 75 Old 02-02-2014
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Re: 10K$ boat --- Are Insurance and Survey REALLY mandatory?

Joining this thread late. What can I say that has not already been said?

OK, here's sumthin:

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Originally Posted by robertluster View Post
...An old, leaky, unsafe boat out on the open water seems MUCH preferable to that!..
You apparently have not been out in the open water in a leaky, unsafe boat.

Good luck pursuing your dream. A lousy boat will spoil your fun (and possibly your life). Take your time and find something good.


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