Sailing "big boats" - Page 5 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree30Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 02-05-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Sailing "big boats"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJohns View Post
Paulo
Yes similar boat but mines 12.5 tons laden. I'd put that in the performance cruiser bracket. It sails at 8 knots pretty easily with the lee rail well out of the water. A bit light for long distance cruising and I get seasick on it !

But lets talk about big boats :-) My 65 footer I have had 4 years now and had no problem adjusting to the size. I love it.

Whats the largest you have skippered, how did you get on ?
I have already said so. Duo crew on a 60ft steel heavy height also without furlers. It was a handful but mostly because we only sailed that one with lots of wind (over F7). With less we prefer to sail on my 24 ft traditional sailboat. The skipper was Flemish and he got quite a reputation among fisherman. We sailed from a fishing harbor and on the conditions we sailed the boat, on the big waves of the Portuguese west coast, we were far faster than the big fishing boats, even with big engines. That Flemish family was living on our home port (aboard) and we become friends.

The problem was that boat was only fun and fast to sail on those conditions. The boat sailed very poorly with medium to weak winds.

Solo sailing the biggest I sailed was a 43ft boat. Less trouble to sail than my 41ft but less fun. I guess that you would be calling that 43ft a performance cruiser. Well my boat is easy if I reef it. I still go fast but that's not as fun as catching the other boats and be entertained taking care of sailing. Not difficult with some experience.

I don't get seasick and the only time I have been close was on the steel big one while cooking with an incredible bad smell of rotten fish. The sea was not that bad but I was not the only one that start to be seasick while trying to cook on those conditions.

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 02-05-2014 at 03:08 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #42  
Old 02-05-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,651
Thanks: 31
Thanked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Sailing "big boats"

What folks who advocate for small boats seem to have difficulty accepting is there is a fundamental difference in attitude in different groups of sailors. Those who are liveaboards with family appreciate all the space they can get. Those who are or intend to cross oceans appreciate the increased safety and days work of a big boat. Depending on where you are in life having the above issues addressed at some point becomes more important than the ease of daysailing. I've taken thousands of daysails and enjoyed each one. Some of the best were by myself but I've never crossed the Atlantic and it's on the bucket list. To be so in touch with your boat through a tiller and be able to time a tack so well you just pull on the sheets not needing a winch handle makes me smile. But being off the shelf for days, beating out a weather window, getting to a new cruising ground never gets old. There's not a "better". But there is a "better" for a given use. Bigger is better for liveaboard (if not static in one spot) and blue water. Think it hard to argue otherwise. In my opinion as big as you can handle without powered assistance is best.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #43  
Old 02-05-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cruising
Posts: 44
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Total Chaos is on a distinguished road
Re: Sailing "big boats"

Reading the above posts... Day sailing doesn't really apply to us, we weren't looking for a boat that we could go sail a few hours after work. We were looking for a home to sail in the trades for long term. A home on the water that happens to save us money on fuel by sailing. Don't get me wrong we love to sail, but we love to explore even more. I have no issue what so ever turning on my motor and heading into the wind.

We have 620 gallons of fuel and just under 1000 gallons of water with a large water maker. We can go a very long way under power alone if need be. Storage is massive... we can walk around inside the lazzarette. There are advantage and disadvantages and who knows after kids are gone we may very well down size to a 40ish foot boat, then again maybe not. We like guests and I am not against the idea of even taking paying guests later on down the road. We've had 18 people on board, granted many were small people, but never felt squished.

I can say this much...our boat really does feel like a home... I have a workbench/ laundry room and garage. In fact this boat is our home, we don't have another.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #44  
Old 02-05-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Sailing "big boats"

Quote:
Originally Posted by caberg View Post
I can't imagine having a boat that I felt was too big to take out alone for a sail.

I can't count the number of times I've squeezed in a few hours of sailing, alone, when I sneak off from work, or wife and son have another engagement.

The cut-off point for "too big to take out alone" will vary (widely) from person to person and boat to boat, but that would be an absolute deal breaker for me on any boat.
Yeah, that's pretty much my take on it, as well...

Boats beyond the size that I'm able or comfortable doing much of anything that needs to routinely be done by myself, well... they simply scare me...

Take something as simple as taking the sails off the boat... Whenever I know I won't be sailing my boat for awhile (prepping for a major storm, or at the beginning of the winter), I take the sails off the boat... getting the #1 genoa, or the main, off the boat unassisted on some of the larger boats I've delivered would be EXTREMELY difficult, or at least sufficiently so that I'd be tempted to not bother, and leave them bent on... Poor practice, and for a piss-poor reason...

I've been lucky, I suppose... I've been blessed with the opportunity to sail plenty of nice big boats... Always with fingers crossed that nothing vital breaks, and always more firmly convinced that I would never, EVER want to own anything much beyond 40-42 feet, or 25,000 lbs. displacement... Others' mileage will vary, naturally...

But 52-footers with 80' carbon spars, start to scare me when the breeze starts to pipe up... And, just as importantly, they frighten the girl I sail with, from time to time... :-)

Total Chaos likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #45  
Old 02-05-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cruising
Posts: 44
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Total Chaos is on a distinguished road
Re: Sailing "big boats"

Re-reading my post. I think I kind of sound like my way is the better way and that's just not true, It works well for us, we don't have a problem handling our sails, she doesn't scare us most of the time and at achor, or on a mooring, or in a slip, ( which is 85% of the time we are "cruising" this boat makes a good home for us. I think if we weren't sailing in the trades, and were say in the Northern lattitudes we would probably be on a different boat and it might not even have sails... Oh I will say that docking was a white knuckled experience the first year and docking in significant wind requires help every time. If the weather is nice I can do it myself without the bow thruster- if there is any wind, there is no way I could do it without at least one line handler, preferably half a dozen. :-)

Last edited by Total Chaos; 02-05-2014 at 06:08 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #46  
Old 02-05-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hobart
Posts: 80
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MikeJohns is on a distinguished road
Re: Sailing "big boats"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene505 View Post
IMHO, the size of the sails is a factor as much as the size of the boat. Our 50 footer does not have the tall mast, which I believe makes her easier to sail solo. I believe the poster with the ketch is seeing a similar effect with managable sails even though the boat is big.

We don't have any electric winches or in mast furling. Rather, we have a stackpack with lazy jacks. With nice size manual winches, sail handling is easy enough. I don't think I'd want to sail solo without the lazy jacks. And the stack pack means a simple zip-up protects the sail from UV.

We have an electric autopilot. If we were to do long distance cruising we'd want to have spare parts for it.

We have 4 kids, the oldest is now 6'3". The room on our 50 is good to have. I don't have to worry about storage or weight. We've had empty storage spots. (I finally put beer in one of them.) Our tankage lets us go for weeks without refilling our water tanks. We can hold a bigger battery bank and have more solar panels too. So there's no rationing of electricity.

As an electrical engineer, the electrical systems come easily to me. So it was a natural progression to add an inverter for the microwave, stanchion lights, long range wifi and other things. I read-up on refrigeration systems and with some advice from Cleave at SeaFrost, I put in our electrical refrigeration/freezer. Yes, I do much of the work. I thoroughly enjoy it. Maybe because I have a desk job, but it gets me outside and gets me some exercise.

Haven't done any passages yet, but the bigger boat makes for a different experience in the weather I've seen. What was described as a rough day by someone on a Catalina 37, was a beautiful day sail on our boat. On one trip from Block Island to Montauk, we actually played Parcheesi in the cockpit while motor sailing along with a lowered traveller. None of the little game peices fell over. And with some competitive kids, it was a raucously good time.

All of the above is to say that I like the size of our boat, can (and often do) sail solo, and don't feel any desire to go smaller.

Not sure about a bigger boat, since it would likely mean fewer day sails. Perhaps we all are comfortable with what we have and see bigger as meaning less sailing. It would be nice to have a raised saloon, that raised area midships that bigger boats have. You know, where you can eat breakfast inside and look out over the anchorage, or stand at the helm inside. If we ever got a bigger boat, that would probably be what led me to get it.

When soloing, I think the time it takes to get to the bow is a factor, for when anchoring, docking, or grabbing a mooring. If you are quick on your feet, you'll get "up there" quicker and you'll be more comfortable with a bigger-sized boat.

Good thread.

Regards,
Brad
The Ketch is a much easier rig to an equivalent area cutter rigged sloop. I can drag around and hank on every sail on my 65' ketch that I couldn't on my 57 sloop. But ketches perform better on the wind the closer they get to an equal masted schooner and with some separation between the mainsail clew and the mizzen tack.

I wonder how many people who are scared of the idea of a large boat would change their opinion if they actually experienced the benefits ? I changed my view decades ago just after one 5 day passage on a 70 footer, compared with my 40 footer at the time it was bliss.
Since then I have had 45' then 57' then 45' again and now 65'

A lot of people are scared of boats that they are unable to manhandle, but larger boats you just adopt different techniques. I find there isnít much difference between my the 45 footer or the 65 footer except you canít just push the 65 off a dockside if the wind is pressing you on, then you need to know how to spring the bow out or use a bow thruster if fitted.

Iím just taking my large thruster out as we just donít use it and Iím shedding weight ( both entrained water and the weight of the gear) and gaining a bit of buoyancy by reclaiming the tunnel. So I apparently don't have a problem handling the boat. I see people thrashing the water with bow thrusters and still coming to grief when a little seamanship would have made life so easy !

Handling the boat shore-side just takes a bit more thought and you proceed with care and a bit of planning itís more small ship handling than small boat handling. But if you keep your speed down the engine stops you just as promptly as with a small boat (providing you have a decent prop installation).

At sea in heavy weather the big boat is easier to work sails, the decks are much more stable, drier and moving around is easier as you can keep your feet. Spreading the sail area over two or more masts is very sensible. I was never happy with my 57 foot sloop It was anxiety inducing in heavy weather. Iím Very happy with the ketch rig on a 65 footer and I would never go back to a large sloop rigged boat now. Light air sails are also fun on a ketch.

I really like the mizzen staysail and Iíve seen equal masted staysail schooners with 3 masts that were quite easy to sail.

Also I think lazyjacks are mandatory offshore. I donít like going offshore without lazyjacks in a boat over 40 feet unless it has a furling main.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #47  
Old 02-06-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cruising
Posts: 44
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Total Chaos is on a distinguished road
Re: Sailing "big boats"

Docking has always been the "stress factor" for us, or rather slipping... it seems we always have to fit a 17'2" wide boat into an 18' wide slot between two other boats. I am sure we could manage without the thruster, but I wouldn't want to manage that without a couple hands to help catch us every time. When you're moving around 80,000 pounds you really don't want to bump into anyone. I use spring lines when I'm short handed and Im sure in reality I could manage if I really had to. That said we always been offered help at every marine we've been to. People see the boat coming in and are always glad to help, often time the harbor will call us up and as us if we need line handlers or any assistance. Just never had any real problem. Of
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #48  
Old 02-06-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Marlborough sounds NZ
Posts: 15
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
sailorbill1 is on a distinguished road
Re: Sailing "big boats"

Iv owned and sailed yachts from 25-78ft.Mostly single handed, funny thing is a big boat is easer to sail(don't have to reef until 20 odd knots)then ease out the main or roll up the furler.Easer motion,more speed,dryer boat.Once a year id go to the scouts den and take 20 odd and dads out for a days sail on the harbour, next day supply them with sand paper,paint,varnish,pies and coke, hay presto!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #49  
Old 02-06-2014
caberg's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 572
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 3
caberg is on a distinguished road
Re: Sailing "big boats"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Total Chaos View Post
Reading the above posts... Day sailing doesn't really apply to us, we weren't looking for a boat that we could go sail a few hours after work. We were looking for a home to sail in the trades for long term. A home on the water that happens to save us money on fuel by sailing. Don't get me wrong we love to sail, but we love to explore even more. I have no issue what so ever turning on my motor and heading into the wind.
Well, to clarify, you did not direct the initial post at this limited group of boat owners.

Quote:
How many of you out there sail boats over 50' ? Do you wish you were smaller? bigger still?
Although, I am not sure it will change the general answer for most folks. There are many people cruising around the world on "small" boats (under 40 feet). And, on the "small" boat these folks are generally still going to get in and out of anchorages and marinas more quickly and with more ease.

I think the word "scared" of a big boat is a bit misconstrued. It's not so much fear, I would think, as it is being not naive about what can potentially go wrong. More times than not, the $hit hits the fan not when you are in the middle of an ocean riding out a gale, but when your prop fouls on a lee shore, or when anchoring, or when any number of things happen in tight spots.

For anyone who says they can handle a 60-70 foot boat easier than a 30-40 foot boat, I'm just not sure what to say to that. My personal experience solo sailing ranges from dinghys to a 40 footer, and I currently sail a 26' boat with plans to be in a mid-30 foot boat. So, I guess I can't really speak to the 60-70 foot range, but from all the talk above about bow thrusters and extra dock hands.... no thanks!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #50  
Old 02-06-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 107
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 1
Shockwave is on a distinguished road
Re: Sailing "big boats"

How can you comment on sailing a larger boat when you haven't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caberg View Post
For anyone who says they can handle a 60-70 foot boat easier than a 30-40 foot boat, I'm just not sure what to say to that. My personal experience solo sailing ranges from dinghys to a 40 footer
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Seacock" vs. "ballcock" or "ball valve?" SEMIJim Gear & Maintenance 18 09-02-2013 05:31 PM
Big Yacht "parking" - Australia and international Cryptonomicon Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 15 08-04-2011 09:43 PM
"Blue Water Boats?" "Rescues" snider General Discussion (sailing related) 37 07-01-2007 10:21 PM
C270 Main Sail "stack Pack", Quick Cover", "lazy Bag" Install randy22556 Catalina 1 02-28-2007 11:53 AM
"24" hints to get you ready for big season opener (Seattle Times) NewsReader News Feeds 0 01-14-2007 04:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:45 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.