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  #51  
Old 02-04-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

first boat a typhoon
second a CD 24
third a CD 28
fourth a Tayana 37 owned halfsies with a close buddy
fifth a SHE 36 one off built for an OSTAR and left in Conn. when Englishman went home after the race and spiffed up to serve as a single handed cruiser.
sixth a PSC34 left in a shed for a couple of years. Wooded, gone over and sailed.

LAST BOAT a brand spanking new Outbound 46 built to my spec's.

Issue here is each prior boat was bought old and brought up to Bristol Fashion with sweat equity and bits of money when I had it. Actually on several gain equity and had joy of sailing them.
Sad truth if you want to see what's beyond the horizon and go to other counties and not pay for a divorce sailing is still "ripping up thousand dollar bills in a cold shower". Need that Bill Gates attitude toward your kids and the discipline of saving for decades to do your bucket list.
Some of those big boats will sit for awhile and then go off for a year or two. Crying shame if they just sit. Think sailboats are like diesels - need to run long enough to get to operating temp often or they break down. Don't see the sense of a big boat just to daysail unless liveaboard. More fun to daysail in a dedicated daysailor and use the money for something else. Only person you need to impress is yourself.
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Last edited by outbound; 02-04-2014 at 05:59 PM.
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  #52  
Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryL View Post
I don't believe that a lack of money is keeping people from sailing. As you note, if you want to sail, you should be able to do it cheaply.

I started sailing in 2003 with a 1982 Catalina 22. I paid around $3000 for the boat and it was in good condition (not great, but certainly good enough for day sails). The boat was on a trailer and came with a decent outboard engine. I could not get a mooring that year so we trailer sailed the boat. I paid the town $10 for a ramp permit so I could launch the boat, park the car and trailer, etc. I would have to check my records but I think I sailed the boat 5-10 times that year (got the boat in early August).

The next year I paid $100 for a mooring permit, got a free dingy that I fixed for $50, bought a mooring for $300, and paid a company $100 to drop the mooring and $100 to pull the mooring in the fall. So my total costs for a year were under $1000. We sailed a lot that year (upgraded to a Newport 28 in July, but that's another story)

But sailing is not for everyone. It takes a serious time commitment and the right personality and I think most people are just not into it. If you have a family with kids there are so many competing activities that most people are not going to make the commitment to go sailing. Between work, kids sports, house, lawn, and vehicle maintenance, family obligations, TV/computer/video games, etc. there just isn't that much leisure time available. Then the weather and seasons come into play too. I'm in the north east, and the sailing season is really May - October. And in those months, how many free weekend days will there be when the weather cooperates? How many people are willing to learn a complicated activity with a unique language, that is sort of anachronistic (you mean we can't go directly from here to there if the wind isn't blowing right?) and perhaps dangerous?

Then, when you finally are able to get out on the water, and the weather is nice, and the wind is nice, and the boat works well, MOST people are still going to be like: "So this is it? We're on a boat and going like 5 miles and hour, and we can't get anywhere and why can't you turn the motor on so we can go faster, and like I'm hungry and why didn't you bring anything good to eat and like I'm so bored, and my iphone is like dying, and OMG this is so boring, and I have to meet my friends in 2 hours and when are we turning around and why is this taking sooo long."

Wow, writing all this down, I wonder why ANYONE with a young family sails. I guess that's why so few do!

Personally, I LOVE sailing and I AM a little crazy, so it works for me. But certainly not for everyone.

PS: For SOME people (those who GET it) when you finally are able to get out on the water, and the weather is nice, and the wind is nice, and the boat works well, it will be like "This is amazing! It's so peaceful and quiet, and the boat moves through the water so nicely, and this is all free? And we can go anywhere we want and food on the water tastes so much better and the sun feels good on my skin and we can stay out here as long as we like and how does the boat move so well when I can barely feel the wind and the water is warm and THIS IS JUST GREAT!"

Barry
Just wanted to comment, we just took up sailing. Kids in and older than college. The moments when you have a good breeze, and the sun is glinting off the water, and the wind and sun are on your face, with no noisy motor, slicing throught the water as people have done for thousands of years- well, this is what makes life magic. Those "in a rush" people? Maybe they'll appreciate it next time around.
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Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

There is enough philosopical stuff above for me not to want to repeat it.

My attitude is that if you want to own a boat you have to have something to turn into boat. Some folks have lots of money and turn that into boat.

I bought a boat that if I had a lot of money I could afford. But I don't have a lot of money. So I have to find something else that I can afford to turn into boat.

I am blessed with the ability to make things and fix things. So the boat that I own is partly funded using money but mostly funded by skills that I have and that others have to pay for. So I turn those skills into boat.

I have a lot of patience so I turn patience into boat. If the thing I am making turns out to be sub-standard, I make another one until I get one that satifies my standard. It may still not be perfect but works for me without turning my boat into an eyesore.

I also have a standard that meets the combination of money and skills - I don't need perfect - as long as the boat stays presentable, reliable and safe I'm OK with it.

I have posted this before - the truth of it is that if I had to pay someone else to do all the upgrades and R&M, the boat I own would be out of my reach.

So my wealth is not money - but many people think it is. I don't work very hard at explaining it to them.
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  #54  
Old 07-22-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

Not rich. And you don't have to be.

Our story:
Sold an old off-road motorcycle from the 1980s and spent the money (no more, no less) on a 1970s sailboat (23.75' LOA) in good condition with an outboard. Bought a trailer for it too, found it in a yard for $900, like new condition, tandem axle large powerboat trailer with hydraulic brakes. Modified it to fit a keeled sailboat for about $300. Now I keep the boat on the trailer mast-up at a lake boat ramp for about $15/month, plus membership in the marina club ($500/year).

We sail it very often (maybe 20 times this year already and including a club racing series). We overnight on it from time to time (a bit like camping, but OK for one night). We regularly get 15-mile day sails in on her. Big enough to take out friends and their kids.

We keep the boat in good repair, and clean it regularly. We spend $ on the things we need (new battery this year, plus $60 in blocks to replace a broken boomvang), and don't spend the money on things we don't need (slip -- since we can launch the boat in less than 30 minutes).

Honestly, we have considered going to a bigger boat in a slip, but we keep coming back to whether we would have more fun or not, and so far it has not gone that way, and we have elected to spend that extra money on our mortgage or saving for retirement.

Our annual investment is probably $1,000/year after the initial boat cost. Yes, that's discretionary income that most people don't have, but it's not a rich activity. I hope the myth about sailing being a rich man's sport is dispelled, but myths don't die easily.
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  #55  
Old 07-22-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

I have been living aboard and cruising 11 months a year on a months wages a year, since my mid 20's. I am anything but rich, as are most of my full time live aboard cruising friends. Living aboard has saved me so much money that I don't have to work more than a month a year. Living ashore is far more like tearing up thousand dollar bills for entertainment, than living aboard and cruising full time. If that is not the case ,then you are doing something wrong.
The rich don't want people to know that the not so rich can cruise, so they ( and ship swindlerys )sabotage such efforts, by convincing some that the expensive way is the only option cruisers have. Not only is it not the only way, but it is also often not the best way.
You can see this by the way they attack and ridicule anyone who offers more affordable and simpler ways of doing things, on this and other sites.
Don't believe them. It will cost you your dream.
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  #56  
Old 07-22-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

I agree with Brent Swain,
I used to live on a boat for a couple of years and saved so much money from doing it that when i moved off it i was able to spend a serious amount of money on a truck. I remember the feeling of the first of the month coming around and thinking to myself that i don't need to pay a land lord today.
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Old 07-23-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

I bought my first used Hobie Cat 16, for $1500. I bought my second used Hobie Cat 16 for $250 (with a perfect set of sails and a hole in one hull that I fixed in two hours).

Sailing is a like a lot of hobbies. You can spend a very small amount of money and do it, or an extremely large amount and do it. And, the great thing is, the experience of actually sailing, really isn't that different between the two.

I have a friend who is a long time professional race boater. He alternates between sailing million dollars yachts on ocean races, and Flying Scots on the small bay by our yacht club. He says he's at the point where he enjoys sailing the Scots a lot more.
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Old 07-23-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

If it came down to money I'd simply get a smaller boat. A Laser if need be. Cheap stress reduction. I get the sentiment about the Scotts, though for me it would be a cat.
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  #59  
Old 07-29-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

Don't expect valuable advice on low cost cruising from the marina queen crowd. The fact that they are still in the marina indicates that they haven't figured it our yet. When some of that crowd leaves for a "long" cruise ,it is often for only three years, then back on the treadmill for life. When you escape, you will meet all kinds of extremely resourceful people who have been cruising for decades on a shoe string budget. They don't own cars , houses, TVs, etc and don't ever pay moorage ,insurance, power and other landlubber expenses. You simply don't meet them until you leave consumer land behind. You wont find them among the marina crowd.
Many marina dwellers simply make a career out of finding excuses for not leaving. Some attack anyone who suggests that what they are giving are simply excuses, to avoid the frightening prospect of actually going.
Taking your advice from them will get you the same results, huge, unecessary expenses, and never leaving .
Some pay others, who have never cruised themselves, $150 an hour for advice on something their "Expert "advisor has never done himself , long term cruising.
It's far simpler than you ever imagined.
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Old 07-29-2014
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Re: Don't have to be rich to sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Don't expect valuable advice on low cost cruising from the marina queen crowd. The fact that they are still in the marina indicates that they haven't figured it our yet. When some of that crowd leaves for a "long" cruise ,it is often for only three years, then back on the treadmill for life. When you escape, you will meet all kinds of extremely resourceful people who have been cruising for decades on a shoe string budget. They don't own cars , houses, TVs, etc and don't ever pay moorage ,insurance, power and other landlubber expenses. You simply don't meet them until you leave consumer land behind. You wont find them among the marina crowd.
Many marina dwellers simply make a career out of finding excuses for not leaving. Some attack anyone who suggests that what they are giving are simply excuses, to avoid the frightening prospect of actually going.
Taking your advice from them will get you the same results, huge, unecessary expenses, and never leaving .
Some pay others, who have never cruised themselves, $150 an hour for advice on something their "Expert "advisor has never done himself , long term cruising.
It's far simpler than you ever imagined.
I've cruised and the difference between anchoring out, and staying at a marina, is HUGE as far as the minimum budget necessary to cruise. Just staying in marinas can turn what could have been a five year cruise, into a five month cruise.

On a side note, I pulled into a marina in Marathon on my way to the Bahamas a few years ago to get forwarded mail. On one side of me was a Morgan Out Island 33, and on the other side was a Tayana 37. The owners of both had been planning to cruise they both announced. The guy on the Out Island told me he had been thinking about going to the Bahamas since he had bought the boat. I asked when he bought it and he said, "Five years ago". In Marathon, a day's sail from the Bahamas, but he had never just put the sails up and went.

The Tayana looked like a floating advertisement for West Marine. I've never seen so much gear bolted onto a boat.

I have no doubt they are both still there.
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