SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Inboard/Outboard?

8K views 51 replies 17 participants last post by  Michael Bailey 
#1 ·
Looking for your thoughts? There is a 1985 Aloha 8.2 for sale including a dinghy with a nice 2 hp motor. This model was built with a outboard option and now has a Honda 15 hp. four stroke for power.
The owner has liked this option especially for the added space in the inboard compartment. Is this a good arrg't or a downside for resale?

Your thoughts appreciated.

Cheers,
 
#3 ·
IMO it depends how you plan to use the boat and local conditions. If you have to fight strong currents and choppy sea, inboard is a much better option. But the simplicity and low cost of an outboard is very tempting. Just make sure the motor mount allows for easy access to the motor controls while under way, and that the prop is sufficiently deep under water when deployed.
 
#4 ·
Biggest consideration should be is number of boats they built with inboard vs outboard. If Ouyang built 300 (I don't know how many they actually built) of this model and a handful had inboards you will be challenged to move the boat when you decide to trade up or get out. Considering the build year most Ontario based boat builders of 27' and up had committed to inboard diesels, mostly Yanmars, some Westerbekes & Universals. The larger builders stayed away from the 'off brands' due to price and quality perception in the market. How long will it take to resell? I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY BOAT LISTINGS DON'T HAVE A LISTING DATE like real estate listings. Shouldn't buyers know how long a boat has been on the market & what has happened to the price over time? And why is there no Boatproof or Boatfacts like auto resale, at least for boats with engines?

For the 12k list price you could find a similar vintage CS27 with Yanmar inboard. Some find the boat less than attractive with the high freeboard and extreme tumblehome, but the boat is simple, well built, is a pleasure to sail and has a strong association support. Disclosure - I am biased as I assembled about 200 27's.
 
#5 ·
You haven't bought it yet and you're already thinking of selling it? :)

From Sailboatdata:"Designer: Robert Perry" --- if that's our very own Bob Perry, maybe he will chip in with his expertise.

My understanding with outboards is that beside the normal care and feeding you get with every engine, the main problem is the prop coming out of the water when the Ocean starts getting up on her hind legs. As usual, "It depends." When & where you sail, and under what conditions, will determine the fitness. She's a fine-looking model, best of luck to you both.

Fair winds.
 
#6 ·
Lots of pros and cons to consider.

First, an outboard solution is less-expensive... the outboard version of the Aloha will cost less (but fetch less when you sell). If / when you need repair work, an outboard again will cost less... substantially less. Though some might counter it would need more frequent repair.

If your outboard crapped out, you could source a used replacement on Ebay or Craigslist and be back in business in days... I scored a used 15 HP 2-stroke for $600, tuned it and replaced the impeller at home, then installed it in under an hour; I was out of service less than a week. If your diesel crapped out, you're probably talking several weeks (you could lose 1/3 or 1/2 a season in Ontario).

The other knock on outboards is that they can lift out in a rough, pitching sea. While true for stern-hung outboards, it may not be valid when the boat has a purpose-built outboard well in the stern. My 28-footer has a purpose-built well, and with my long-shaft 15HP outboard, I submit my prop is just as deep as an inboard design's prop would be. I have a remote throttle & shifter and electric start so the operating convenience is the equal of an inboard. And with a slot cut in my transom, I can raise my prop out of the water when sailing (no drag) or on the mooring (no fouling).

Yes, an outboard runs on gas... much more volatile than diesel fuel. 4 stroke outboards are quiet and reasonably efficient... 2 strokes not so much. But diesels are louder than either.

Your 27' boat may be in the same league as my 28 footer; it is getting to the point where older boats of this size are not very attractive on the resale market... if you had to replace the diesel it would require you to invest around half the boat's entire value.

In my opinion, in boats of older vintage in the 27-28' size range, I'd always opt for the less costly, simpler design solution... that which gets me on the water while minimizing my spend on a boat that won't fetch much at resale time.
 
#7 ·
For myself I love outboards on sailboats. Minimal noise in the cabin when motoring, no cutlass bearing that drips, no diesel fuel and oil odor in the bilge, more stowage space inside the boat, very economical and easy to maintain.

Very large offshore powerboats and fishing boats use twin, triple and quad outboards. Never could figure out why nobody designed larger sailboats for use with a 40 or 50 horse outboard on a jackplate to lift it out of the water for sailing instead of bolting a noisy rattletrap Yanmar inside the hull. The modern four-stroke, direct-injected outboards approach diesel efficiency too. And if you ever lose your rudder the outboard provides backup steering.
 
#9 ·
Outboards make a lot of sense for many of the reasons stated above.. but there are two major reasons to not choose that path..

#1 - few outboard installations are truly effective in rough conditions when you might need them the most - in many cases the prop spends more time out of the water than in. For sheltered coastal cruising and primarily in/out of harbour they are obviously the ticket..

#2 - Sorry, but who would put an outboard on something as pretty as this.. even a 20 foot version...

 
#13 ·
#18 ·
Another drawback of outboard that hasn't been touched on is fuel consumption. Compared to an inboard diesel, outboards are serious gas guzzlers so you will have to carry a lot of extra fuel to get the same range as a diesel.

While it is true that replacing a diesel is more expensive, the fact is that a properly maintained diesel will last year's longer than any outboard. They are dead simple to repair and will be more reliable in the long run. Trying to work on an outboard when it breaks down on the water can be pretty challenging too.

Having said that, if you don't plan on venturing too far from civilization and gas docks, the outboard could be just fine for your purposes. Modern 4 strokes are amazingly smooth and quiet!
 
#19 ·
Another drawback of outboard that hasn't been touched on is fuel consumption. Compared to an inboard diesel, outboards are serious gas guzzlers
Our little 6hp Yachtwin on our 81 Hunter 22, pushing the boat at 5.7kts GPS, plus towing a 10 foot dinghy, at about 2/3 throttle will run for 12 hours on 4 gallons of gas. That little Yachtwin has thousands and thousands of hours on it, we've taken that boat on two 1,000nm cruises, and all we've ever done to it is replace the water pump impeller and put a new starter rope in it.
 
#21 ·
The beauty of the outboard is the simplicity and room you gain inside the boat. They stuff them Yanmar and Westerbeke diesels in that little cubby hole under the companionway, and you darn near have to be a contortionist to even get the valve cover off to set the valves. And then there's the noise. Don't even THINK about trying to sleep in the aft berth that's under the cockpit in a Legend if you're motoring.
 
#32 · (Edited)
And then there's the noise. Don't even THINK about trying to sleep in the aft berth that's under the cockpit in a Legend if you're motoring.
What, there's no other place to sleep aboard a Hunter Legend 37? :)

For myself I love outboards on sailboats. Minimal noise in the cabin when motoring, no cutlass bearing that drips, no diesel fuel and oil odor in the bilge...
Water is supposed to flow through a cutlass bearing, actually. I presume you mean a stuffing box, perhaps? With a dripless shaft seal, no need to have any water ingress through a shaft log...

"Diesel fuel and oil odor in the bilge" is simply an indication of poor installation and/or maintenance... No excuse for living with either on a proper yacht...

yes diesels are incredibly simple BUT when you need to fix an injector in galapagos, or fnd out why your idle is racing and need a whole new fuel pump or whatnot it gets expensive FAST.
Well, that's one reason why God made such things known as 'spare injectors' :)

IMHO, there are few things on Earth more dependable than a properly installed, maintained, and operated normally aspirated diesel engine... A great deal of the machinery throughout the entire world relies upon such power plants, and the parts for a small block Kubota tractor engine such as mine are among the most common to be found anywhere...

Seems to me, there is a multitude of pretty good reasons why 37-foot cruising boats actually going places are so rarely seen out there being powered by outboards clamped onto the transom... :)
 
#29 ·
I just bought a johnson evinrude 1977 15hp seahorse outboard some if the best little outboards made

going STRONG and maintained well after what almost 40 years? not going to start a war here...but its a common myth that inboard diesels last longer...

I dont see many 1950s, 60s diesels going strong...old and worn out diesels even if well maintained go back to the 70s on sailboats that is and many owners simply give up and repower...which if you have had a boat for so long makes sense

dont want to start a war here but there are many many many diesel inboar engine parts that are no longer available even used...and this is the major reasons why people get rid of their old diesels...you are running on borrowed time if you will...this doesnt mean you can keep your engine running a long time but eventually you will have t start FABRICATING deceased engine parts and that is just TOO expensive

now atomic 4s hell yeah! they are ww2 engines based on older desgins and they do last forever...jajaja

wink wink

now back to outboards...I can go to an omc sight and get everything I need to a tune up kit or powerblock rebuild kit for less than 200

impellers, seals, piston and ring set and a few gaskets...that basically gets you a NEW outboard in an old shell...get yourself a spare set of coils, maybe a cdi if it has one and your in business...or take it to any outboard repair shop around the world and you are back in business

the same CANNOT be said for inboards especially diesels...they do require tecnhical very foccused knowlede especially in the fuel system, injector tuning, and various pumps that need special attention

yes diesels are incredibly simple BUT when you need to fix an injector in galapagos, or fnd out why your idle is racing and need a whole new fuel pump or whatnot it gets expensive FAST.

cheers

btw this is what my boat came with( a big boat for an outboard but it works)



2 brackets tied together. jajajajaja
 
#31 ·
yes diesels are incredibly simple BUT when you need to fix an injector in galapagos, or fnd out why your idle is racing and need a whole new fuel pump or whatnot it gets expensive FAST.
Indeed I know of more than one cruiser who ended up enjoying the dock life for an extended period of time after their Yanmar or Westerbeke diesel gave up the ghost. Not too hard to blow a good chunk of your cruising budget on a repower.
 
#33 ·
Jon Im not talking about that...Im talking about the fact that there are some old diesels, and gas engines that you cant get spares...you have to scrounge old shops and places to get spares and some parts are no longer made...

most spares that are hard to find even for common diesels like yanmar are heat ehchangers or exhaust elbow flanges, some pumps, cranks and certain gears etc...

this is not a inboard is more common on big boats thread of course they are!

but when you look at say old volvo penta prices...for a pump or something simple like an injector they are ridiculously overpriced

not worth it...when other parts go south on the engine...what good is a new injector on a corroded days counted block? that is non fixeable

name me one cruiser here who has a 1950s or 60 diesel that is impecable inside and out orginal? you wont find one

its tough because you have to take a big decision...do I keep adding money to an engine that will eventually fail or do I repower or chose an alternate method of propulsion

what Im trying to say here is that some inboards have almost zero parts availabilty...and when cruising its very hard to objectively say this is better than yes having an ugly outboard system outback

Im not advocating my propulsion style Im objectively stating what is commonly known...

some inboard engines have very very very bad parts availabilty, and when you do get the part they are often worth the price if a used inboard ready to run...
 
#35 ·
and that is just one benefit...

inboard benefits are always better prop depth...cruising rpms
when working well they use less fuel

they are reliable when working ajajaja
can be run days on end
if parts are available like kubotas(yes you do have to look up the tractor parts not the marine parts) you have it made
if you maintain they can last 20 years without anything major needed to be fixed...after 20 or so years you do have to at least rebuild, once or twice to fix blocks, cranks, journals etc...and this is where it gets expensive on diesels, why cause something always needs to be replaced that wasnt on the list...and if its not available well your in paradise waiting for that part

and like mentioned before whole cruising kitties get blown to hell doing this

whereas an outboard and yes its ugly, yes you have to carry it around, pulley system mount, unmount etc...

there is not one country that doesnt have at least one outboard mechanic! jajaja even in the mountains...

its a carb a piston or 2 and fuel...thats it...same could be said for a diesel except for the fac t that we all know that in reality they are more complicated than made to beleive

for example unless you have a nice injector calibrator and test bench how could you accurately measure spray volume on a new spare injector mid ocean? basically you just plop it on and hope for the best...

what if you shimmed it badlly, on some engines its so precise you can have a racing engine or a non starter...

another example how complicated is the fuel system on an outboard? I mean some can suck straight through a 55 galon drum of fuel like panga fishermen use down here

they clean the carb once a month and done...no racor filters and expensive fuel pumps that always fail, siphons, u bends and breathers etc...

then the exhasut system! what exhaust on an outboard?

so expensive...the hoses, the piping...the waterlifts, etc...packing blah blah blah blah blah

anybody who doesnt aknowledge this is not being true to themselves...

when cruising and I have said this a bunch on other threads...one of the biggest drawbacks is inboard maintenance and many cruisers quit the cruising lifestyle cause they had it with their engine...

you rarely see a guy quit cruising cause his outboard failed...most often than not $500 later he has one and is off to the sunset

when you compare prices for example an outboard for $500-1000 used new 2k.

and an injector for 300-500 or a pump or alternator or starter motor for 250 or more...it quickly adds up and unless you do all the work yourself which most cruisers do btw...you get labor quotes in the $50 an hour even in places like mexico, central america, asia etc...

it used to be cheaper but they know that it costs $$$ to properly fix an inboard diesel not just slap on some crap and set you off...

btdt.

christian
 
#43 · (Edited)
Hmmm, I think you forgot to mention a few other well-known advantages of outboards for cruising sailors...

1) The ability to mount high amperage alternator to aid in battery charging...

2) The ability to mount a PTO to run an accessory such as an engine-driven refrigeration system, for example...

3) The ability to run a forced air bus heater system, or a hot water heater, tied into the the outboard's FW coolant side...

4) The ability to run a gasoline heater/fireplace that is compatible with the same - and much safer than diesel - fuel carried aboard for the engine...

Oh, wait... You mean one CANNOT do any of those things with a outboard motor on the transom? :)

Damn, the more I think about it, I can't imagine why more cruisers out there in 35-40' boats aren't exchanging their diesels for outboards, or the 'market' isn't clamoring for Catalina and Beneteau to begin offering their boats in that size range with an outboard motor option...

Just a matter of time, no doubt, before Oyster introduces a new 70-footer with a pair of 150 HP E-Tecs mounted on the sugar scoop... :))
 
#36 ·
I've been looking on the 'net and find very little on diesel outboards. One outfit in 'preproduction', which could mean 5 minutes or 5 years; discontinued motors; some Chinese outfit offering various sizes, but they're afraid to put a price on their website.....
Surprising, given the new lighter alloys and bulletproof ceramics available. I did find a few vague references to the military using them, so *someone* makes them. Maybe they're afraid that if they bring out a commercial model, they won't be able to get those grossly exaggerated prices from the military anymore. :)
 
#37 · (Edited)
I thought I remember tohatsu making one about 10 years back...it was in mexico and it was awesome...but heavy as hell I remember

maybe it was a yanmar outboard or something like that but I have seen them...they did and or do exist...

its just never going to a masses favourite...

the military had a famous now kawasaki klr650 offroad motorcycle, for example that could run on anything from jet fuel, military grade fuel(forget the name) to plain old diesel or kerosene

I had a standar klr and it was my dream to have a military spec one! jajaja

nothing wrong with diesel its just Ive seen too many examples while out there of why they arent the best for somebdoy with meeager means...or on a budget or even if money isnt an issue...

getting parts is a hassle worldwide, for anything...not just engines...
 
#38 ·
Well lemme weigh in here a minute. I've sailed Lake Michigan in six and eight foot waves on my little Windrose 20 with a 4 h.p. Merc. Steep waves on a short fetch and the motor never came out of the water while powering into and out of the Marina. I've also sailed the pnw with my 27ft Catalina powered by a 9.8 Tohatsu and yeah I recall the motor popping out once in 25 knot winds against the tide coming out of Oak Harbor. So for coastal and inland Lake cruising I don't think jumping out of the water is a big deal but NO I wouldn't consider sailing the Ocean blue with an outboard hangin on the stern. Just sayin".;)
 
#39 ·
but NO I wouldn't consider sailing the Ocean blue with an outboard hangin on the stern. Just sayin".;)
The first time you hit something at sea and damage your prop and bend the shaft and tear your rudder off you'll wish you had an outboard. I know cruisers who have hit something at sea and just that happened to them. The rest was a nightmare, including getting towed in and a $8,000 tow bill.
 
#46 ·
btw jon

for all those purported benefits of an inboard you can do them without an inboard

for one

solar and wind beat a damn inboard for charging batteries, most inboards suffer because they are used for thie...diesels especially are intended to be ran on load...high loads but you know that.

2. when cruising the equatorial route no one in their right mind want hot water, or a heater to run off the engine. duh...and yes most people cruise the equatorial route...

3. a diesel heater is one of the safest things on boats in cold weather...dont know why yo want or would like to tie it into the engine again! why is the inboard all of a sudden a damn central station for accesories...

its not its an AUXILIARY PROPULSION SYSTEM

and lastly you have many ways of charging batteries...small gensets, wind, solar, even trolling battery chargers

so I have no idead why THOSE BENEFITS are the ones you chose to make a point on as those arent even remotely close to being the real benefits of an inboard

the real benefits like I objectively stated before are:

correct hp ratio for displacement(most cases they are way too big)
correct prop depth
correct cruising rpms and correct cruising speed for intended boat and design
great fuel mileage
silent(sometimes)

and way way down the list
charging ability

thats my list and my epxerience going almost around the world on various inboard powered boats

and just for the sake of helping others here decide and not argue

by far the best inboard I have worked in was a VETUS 3 cylinder

it was noisy as hell! and rattled and shaked like hell but it was a mitsu block much like bigger kubotas...and was so reliable...the owener bought it new...it was this maintenance from new that kept the engine this way

what happens is you can never really know what has happened to engines especially inboards when purchasing a used boat...there is always some period of neglect that causes issues to the new owners.

thats why rebuilds are so popular.

and lastly I love diesels Im just offering different points of view

for example in my case it would be astronomical to have a diesel shipped down here, installed and or modified new or used...

but slapping an outboard on the mounts already on the boat is a great way to get back in shape again....sail sail sail and not worry about what damn inboard I should or could have

thats my 3 cents

peace
 
#48 ·
I was offered a yanmar 2qm15...rust bucket but ran...corroded belly pan, and flywheel tranny cover a bit back

this guy wanted no les than $1500

this did not include installation, spare parts, even an exhaust system...

on my boat with a gas tank I would of had to modify or clean the tank...get a return fuel system...modify or rip out exhaust, water lift, siphon valves remove blower, all that jazz

then make a new mount(not cheap) buy a new coupler(have you seen coupler prices lately? like 250)

then start it and test it...

prop, cruising rpms...vibrations, mounts, new mounts, whatever that engine needed

thats at least 2500 investment for me

whereas since im a SAILOR and not a coastal cruiser with a passion for motorsailing in 10 knot winds what utter crap(most coastal cruisers are this way) I dont care what engine I have as soon as the sails are up

I bought a $600 pristine outboard.

but I stress again and again both have advantages

lastly regarding boat design

I couldnt agree more...too much imprtance is given to accesories and and equipment on new boats...kind of like buying a used car or new car with all the gizmos that quickly rack up the price

for me an offshore boat has a small cokpit, huge drains...or an aft spiller, small flush dodger(like the inflatable one yves gelinas uses on his alberg 30) and has no inboard...

but thats for offshore sailing...among other thigs it would have massive bulkeads watertight compartments...manual bilge pumps inside and outside...etc.

a second wheel station like motissier used on joshua...a lookout in the forepeak with a bubble top etc...

but regarding engines and desigin for a coastal cruiser you want big hp...big tankage...

for offshore(just ask the racers) you want light, removaeable and very easy to service and very small... just to get in an out of port...

in my opinion either an aircooled simple diesel or gas engine even inboard is ideal here or a small electric inboard

and yes even a nice new small 4 stroke outboard(I prefer 2 stroke for simplicity and ease of maintenance) on a vey easily removable track or outboard bracket would be ideal.

why cause then you can stow it and be a very good sailor...which is the point. to SAIL.

I think it simply just comes down to your priorities...we all have different opinions...my experience and views come from having done it before...

my view is that you only need an inboard(or auxiliary propulsion) to comfrotably enter small reefs and atolls...any place with currents over 5knots( torres straights, panama canal or similar areas) or when hopping from marina to marina in 1st world countries...

anything else or ocean voyagng you are kidding yourself and doing your boat a disservice by having a huge inboard just taking up space, stinking the boat up etc...

btw and we should all know this inboards suffer a great deal just sitting in the bilge waiting to get started...in bad weather there are a lot of forces involved...water gets siphoned in blowing out one way valves...fuel is stirred and dirtied up...air gets in the lines...valves get coolant in them, heat exhangers leak...etc.

oil gets spilled...heat exchangers and water lifts get clogged up...if you have water filters they often blow(happend to us) or lose water and you have to refill...

many many things

and in a rollover or heavy knockdown its been documented MANY MANY times in many books inboards often need to be stripped down and completely cleaned and serviced cause they are often non runners after a knowckdown...

what also happens is that cruisers often look to start then engine in these cases and cause CATASTROPHIC damage because the engine sucked up air in the oil...or water in the fuel or whatever and quickly leave themselves out adrift.

Im not saying this is a benefit of aving an outboard say in a watertight bag or compartment ready to use will get you anywhere...

Im saying that in this scenario it would be better than a non running inboard if you lose the mast and you have enough fuel to run say a nice 4 stroke 8hp outboard this could get you 200-300miles or more closer to where you want to be...at least while you rig a new sail or mast etc...

but I again this is just my opinion...and view...not written in stone and not meant to be argumentative...

cheers to all
 
#49 ·
but I again this is just my opinion...and view...not written in stone and not meant to be argumentative...
Your opinions pretty much agree with mine. But those opinions are formed from the btdt standpoint. I've seen and worked on way too many boats that somebody bought cheap and then it cost what the whole boat cost to fix the inboard engine when it went on vacation. Everybody builds sailboats that way, except for the smaller <30 foot cruisers where some have outboards. I have yet to ever see somebody that had to give up sailing for an extended period of time because they couldn't afford to fix or replace their outboard. Seen way too many boats that became Dock Queens, or on the hard on stands, because of a dead inboard.
 
#50 ·
me too...but others have other views about this and I GUESS in a sense, thats the beauty of it all.

thats it for me boss

see ya out there...need to work on the boat and get crap done and ready...cruising season is full steam ahead.
 
#51 ·
When I started this thread I asked for your thoughts on a 1985 Aloha 8.2 with the designed outboard option, powered by a four stroke Honda 15 h.p. outboard engine and if this is a good arrg't or could it be a downside for resale?
I guess I got my answer and maybe more, but I never thought it was going to be this lively and probably a lot of it could of been on a separate thread?

Anyway, thanks for your answers.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top