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  #21  
Old 03-07-2014
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Re: ICW coffee table book

I just had to respond before I got removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Dave, I agree on the value of crowd sourcing, but what is the value of that input when the "owner" of the crowd has a habit of attacking anyone who disagrees with him?
The arguments against me are typically personal. I don't attack anyone who is willing to have an honest debate about facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
What does that do the the value of the input?
Exactly - what does that have to do with the value of the input? Do you think I change any of the hundreds of thousands of reviews and millions of user-entered data because I don't like someone?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Further, if some can be banned from the crowd because of disagreements with the owner, as has happened in the past, then does that not skew the crowd, and make the data suspect?
I agree that AC could be a fantastic resource, with a different personality facilitating the crowd.
No one has been banned from ActiveCaptain because of a disagreement with me personally. No one.

Banning happens because of an abuse or a threat of abuse. There have been some temporary bans because of a moderator banning me - happened here and was later re-instated by me. Interesting to point out that I'm still banned here (well, sort of I guess). Banning can also happen when someone is so rude that we feel they are not welcome in the community. Those are pretty rare. Actually, the number of banned people is about 10 out of 200,000. If that tilts the millions of pieces of information within ActiveCaptain, you're dreaming.

People hated Steve Jobs and thought he was an *******. He had a passion for his products and ideas. I'm no Steve Jobs although he's an idol of mine who I met and talked to twice. I have a passion too for my products and the changes they're making to cruising and the community. If that makes me an *******, I'd be in great company and would be honored by the label.
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  #22  
Old 03-07-2014
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Re: ICW coffee table book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Siegel (really) View Post
People hated Steve Jobs and thought he was an *******. He had a passion for his products and ideas. I'm no Steve Jobs although he's an idol of mine who I met and talked to twice. I have a passion too for my products and the changes they're making to cruising and the community.
I agree you (Jeff) are no Steve Jobs. You have however, like Mr. Jobs, both conceived a concept AND delivered on it that led to fundamental change. There are few people who can say that.

Jeff, like Mr. Jobs, is someone that causes me to stop and think when we disagree. I commend the practice.
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  #23  
Old 03-07-2014
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Re: ICW coffee table book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Siegel (really) View Post
I just had to respond before I got removed.



The arguments against me are typically personal. I don't attack anyone who is willing to have an honest debate about facts.


Exactly - what does that have to do with the value of the input? Do you think I change any of the hundreds of thousands of reviews and millions of user-entered data because I don't like someone?



No one has been banned from ActiveCaptain because of a disagreement with me personally. No one.

Banning happens because of an abuse or a threat of abuse. There have been some temporary bans because of a moderator banning me - happened here and was later re-instated by me. Interesting to point out that I'm still banned here (well, sort of I guess). Banning can also happen when someone is so rude that we feel they are not welcome in the community. Those are pretty rare. Actually, the number of banned people is about 10 out of 200,000. If that tilts the millions of pieces of information within ActiveCaptain, you're dreaming.

People hated Steve Jobs and thought he was an *******. He had a passion for his products and ideas. I'm no Steve Jobs although he's an idol of mine who I met and talked to twice. I have a passion too for my products and the changes they're making to cruising and the community. If that makes me an *******, I'd be in great company and would be honored by the label.
Thanks for your input here Jeff- sure beats stalking me all over the internet doesn't it?

Thanks as well, for, again, reinforcing my opinion, Jeff. You had the opportunity to change my view of you and your tactics,, and create an ally rather than an opponent. Instead, you take the opportunity to compare yourself to Steve Jobs, and position yourself as a misunderstood victim.






Amazing what a response a throwaway line in a post regarding coffee table books can generate.

Folks I apologize that this thread got hijacked.
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Last edited by bljones; 03-07-2014 at 12:46 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03-07-2014
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Re: ICW coffee table book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Siegel (really)
...

No one has been banned from ActiveCaptain because of a disagreement with me personally. No one.

Banning happens because of an abuse or a threat of abuse. There have been some temporary bans because of a moderator banning me - happened here and was later re-instated by me. Interesting to point out that I'm still banned here (well, sort of I guess). Banning can also happen when someone is so rude that we feel they are not welcome in the community. Those are pretty rare. Actually, the number of banned people is about 10 out of 200,000. If that tilts the millions of pieces of information within ActiveCaptain, you're dreaming.
...
Normally I wouldn't do this, but I can't let his statement go without context. First, let me point out that at NO time in this forum or to anyone in person have I bashed Active Captain (even after having my account deleted by Mr. Siegel in retaliation for him being banned from SailNet). I believe it is a fine product and good for the boating community.

I do, however, take issue with the owner and I can separate the owner from the product.

It is inaccurate that he doesn't ban anyone who disagrees with him. Several SailNet users were banned from using Active Captain because they did not agree with him. One, who was not registered with AC but had even been willing to pay for the service, was told not to bother registering.

Mr. Siegel was originally banned from SailNet after we had an exchange where he let it be known that he deliberately stirs the pot in forums because negative publicity and controversy drives people to his site. I get that. It's marketing. I don't care for the practice but, that's just me. During a civil exchange about using SailNet in that way and why I thought it was wrong, he also got into an exchange with another member during which he disclosed that member's full name from information he retrieved from his own database.

I considered that an invasion of privacy. When members register with SailNet, whatever information they put on the initial registration I consider confidential. If any member wants to give out his or her name, that's up to him or her, not the moderators. This member did not publicly provide his full name in this forum.

So, Mr. Siegel was banned because he was using SailNet to promote his company without being a paid advertiser as well as for violating the privacy of a SailNet member. In addition, one of the other rules is about causing moderators to spend an inordinate amount of time responding to reported posts. We were getting complaints from all corners.

If someone is a contributor to the forum we don't ban without a lot of discussion. But all of what I mentioned above coupled with the fact that almost every post he made was negative towards SailNet and its members didn't make it a hard decision.

Today he has violated our policy about having multiple user names. Unlike Mr. Siegel I respected his decision that I "didn't deserve to use Active Captain" (his words) and I did not attempt to register under a different name.
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  #25  
Old 03-07-2014
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Re: ICW coffee table book

Well! This is one thread that would certainly NOT be complete without my comments....forgive me all.
Siegel states that he has never banned anyone over disagreeing with him. That's a flat out lie. I have been banned from AC for nothing more than disagreeing with him. Not that I'm surprised Siegel would lie about this, he lies about a great many things as we all know. Furthermore, he doesn't like the fact that I find and discuss the many, many errors that are in the AC database. That's another topic for another day however.
Quote:
The arguments against me are typically personal. I don't attack anyone who is willing to have an honest debate about facts.
Another lie. At one point in time (until 2011) I used to get along with Siegel, until he had a difference of opinion with me and began some rather vitriolic attacks. That's history now and unimportant.
However, anytime I attempt to engage him in an honest discussion, he either refuses to respond, or gets nasty. The only place that isn't happening is on the SSCA, largely because he's been told in no uncertain terms by those in charge to behave there. I can just imagine the gnashing of teeth over that.
What's my disagreement cost me? Over the past two and a half years, I've had to contact the police to keep Siegel from harassing me in a variety of ways, from being signed up for 47 evangelical Christian daily newsletters (he pulled that one twice), getting 3 am wake up calls from an online wake up service, newsletters from online gay sites - whatever he felt would bug me.
I've also had to warn SAIL Magazine, where I'm a contributing editor, to monitor letters in response to my articles online (he's put out some nasty stuff there), monitored my own blog carefully (more nasty comments), and I've had to spend (waste) time monitoring anything I post on other sites as Siegel tracks this stuff on the net and then puts in his own abusive replies. Since his style of writing is easily identifiable, and no one else really cares, who else could it be?
Additionally, just a short while back, he libelled me on his Facebook page, lying outright about my association with Waterway Guides, my pay, and the quality of the product. He removed that quickly enough when I made it clear it would lead to a lawsuit if it wasn't. And yes, I've kept copies and screenshots in case they're ever needed.
He also recently lied outright about the Miami Boat show incident of two years ago, when he publicly and crudely berated the then acting president of the NMEA. He's hacked the former president of the Marine Trawler Owner's Association, and spoofed emails there. it goes on and on...and on....
One only has to go to the Panbo article - Innovation & the future of NMEA 2000...{the personal drama edition} - Panbo Forum to get the opinion of a highly regarded marine professional on Siegel.

Siegel got ONE thing correct here - anyone care to guess? Since he's not Steve Jobs, that leaves just one thing unremarked upon...
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  #26  
Old 03-07-2014
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Re: ICW coffee table book

G.Zeus! I guess I need to get out more (on the Net). this is all news to me
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