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  #151  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

I have some sympathy for James' curmudgeony perspective, but I think this thread is largely railing against a problem that doesn't exist. Sure, there is the occasional wing nut that posts here with visions of finding a floating Shangri-La, but that's a tiny minority. I've been hanging around these boards for four years now (one less that you James), and I don't perceive any change in character. I could be wrong (not the first time ), but I'd like some evidence.

As for any increase in SAR events due to a rise in ill prepared dreamers venturing forth, you're going to have to show me the data. Has there been rise in rescues? Are these somehow linked to "careless, irresponsible" sailors and cruisers? You can't just make this statement without backing it up with real data. Of course there are incidence of this, but is this really any different than in the past? Perhaps our SAR systems are now better so instead of these people disappearing from the gene pool, they are now rescued ... perhaps. Show me the data!

I agree there is a tendency to turn cruising into a competition, and that irks me. My speculation is that this demonstrates the poverty of our culture which only values things presented in a business plan way. Hence the rise in the "bucket list" approach to living.
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  #152  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

wise wise words mike, good on ya for that

I agree completely (the business plan way of living) Ill have to remember that...so right!

being a curmudgeon myself, my wife calls me an ogre(like shreck jajaja) I often snap and whip up a comment based on impulse

but after thinking things over...I just dont see what a lot of guys on here are stating and or insinuating

for me like many many many many sailors too my first dreams of circumnavigating and deep ofshore sailing came from reading dove...

I was very fortunate though to have a grandfather and father with a tradition of sailing, so I grew up on boats, was famously conceived on a swan 50 something in spain(thats what my dad used to tell me jaja) and read book upn book about the deep blue sea, from the roths, to chichester to knox johnston, slocum all the big ones...all the heavy weather sailing tactic books even chapman! he had a library of both written and visual information...so as a young 14 year old when I really got hooked I had a base to start with I already had the fundaments, the love, the passion...

the absurdity for me regarding these threads or not, is both the responses and extremism on BOTH sides of the equation...

those supporting the op for wanting to ask questions and get more info on a forum these days and having at it is cool, but there are also guys on here who just bought a 50footer and have sailed maybe 1 or 2 years giving all sorts of advice and just do it quotes and the sort that detracts from the real important question

those on the naysayer crowd(although in reality they are not naysayers) but very very prudent crowd and take it easy and learn more crowd are in essence right, the thing is how its perceived and posted on here comes off as naysaying, criticising, and belittling those with less experience

I think its very unfortunate...

back when I started cruising I had it told to my face I was going to die a million times, that I was crazy that I was being irresponsible by not going straight to college, that I was a danger to other kids my age by advocating you do something else before going into the system etc..etc...etc...

yet I did it, barely at first but experience grew exponentially all why doing it very very very frugally and barebones with maybe 10% of the equipment so many people nowadays expound on...

there is much to be learned and taught I guess...but its dependant on the person wanting to do these things and not those that have done it

does that make sense?

if wants to he can...up to him, if you happen to have a mentor or old salt that wants to teach you the ropes awesome you will find them along the way but in the end its up to you...

btw I just never understood why so many sailors look to racing as the be all sign of a good sailor...

its different...so dont make cruising into racing, its awful when you see people in anchorages and the like yelling starboard or whatever when your in paradise and getting into fights over some rule that doenst apply to having fun out there!

my 3 cents
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  #153  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

I just want to go to Med. Cross the Atlantic and stop there. I am sure other places are great. But i just want to be there on a boat.
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  #154  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Actually, if you read the threads, they are not portrayed as "dreams", they are present intentions or plans, to be commenced in the near future, without any knowledge, experience or resources. Therein lies the problem.

If a novice came on the forum and wrote, "I loved reading "The Dove" by Robin Lee Graham, and I have been captivated by the romantic idea of circumnavigating ever since. While I realize I may never achieve this poetic dream and I may not have a realistic perspective on such a vast and challenging undertaking, how can I best start the journey toward possible realization at some point in the future?", that would be realistic and sane.

Instead, some retard who went for an afternoon sail with his brother-in-law on a lake yesterday, decides he loves sailing and writes how he now wants to cash in his retirement, abandon his family, and circumnavigate next week as soon as he finds the right $10K boat. Plus, would we tell him the right kind of cereal to pack for the trip?

Kayaking class V rapids would not be the appropriate analogy. Instead, it would be the equivalent to announce one's intention to paddle over Niagara falls next week, as soon as someone tells him the right canoe for the trip. (And there are plenty who will suggest different possible canoes.)

The threads do not reveal a dream, they reveal an ignorant nightmare disguised as a fantasy seeking assistance or approval.

If one is really concerned about the future of sailing, given that it is a dying activity/sport/hobby, perhaps encouraging novices to enter with a realistic approach might best ensure the continuance of sailing.
Never mind. It was a waste of my time to comment. I am sure an attitude like yours will attract new people to the sport. I will stick to gear and boats and away from the general topics area. Sorry to notice the difference.

EDIT: "Instead, some retard", maybe this is where I am picking up the tone.
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Last edited by AlaskaMC; 05-07-2014 at 12:25 PM.
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  #155  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Let me add something to christian's agreement. For me the idea of traveling is to also have sex with the locals. You know. Exotic beauties and all. Whats the point hiding behind an office all your life and then go to Tahiti and see the girls but they refuse to see you? We only live once lets be kinky and fun.
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  #156  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Circumnavigation threads are like the sailor's porn. Admit people, you are drawn to them against your better judgement. Wankers...
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  #157  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
I have some sympathy for James' curmudgeony perspective, but I think this thread is largely railing against a problem that doesn't exist. Sure, there is the occasional wing nut that posts here with visions of finding a floating Shangri-La, but that's a tiny minority. I've been hanging around these boards for four years now (one less that you James), and I don't perceive any change in character. I could be wrong (not the first time ), but I'd like some evidence.

As for any increase in SAR events due to a rise in ill prepared dreamers venturing forth, you're going to have to show me the data. Has there been rise in rescues? Are these somehow linked to "careless, irresponsible" sailors and cruisers? You can't just make this statement without backing it up with real data. Of course there are incidence of this, but is this really any different than in the past?
Yes, there most certainly has been an increase in SAR events. I would suggest there has been a substantial increase in bluewater sailors and coastal cruisers, in spite of the decrease in overall keelboat sailing participation. The prevalence of electronic navigation devices, sat phones, marine radios, and rescue beacons have encouraged more, with less experience, to head offshore. If you read many of the rescue threads, its clear some are not well prepared for what awaits them or don't even understand what they should have. No storm sails, no manual backup systems or redundancy, no problem! The substantial increase in rallys and the resulting increase in rescues demonstrates the fact that some sailors are setting forth without the same respect for the sea in the false belief that an organization or a group will provide them with some extra measure of needed safety.

For an anecdotal example, compare the different response to Robin Lee Graham in 1962 setting out in his Lapworth 24 with Rimas M. currently setting out in his San Juan 24, while fundraising for his voyage on Facebook. Read some of the posts there. https://www.facebook.com/rimas.meleshyus
(No disrespect intended to Rimas M. personally, but I question the wisdom of his voyage in that vessel with his level of preparation, or lack thereof.)

Same size boat, one designed more for the seas and the other for racing. The Dove's voyage was a big deal, covered by National Geographic in a series of articles, due to both his young age, and the very idea of circumnavigating solo. Robin Lee Graham was a well-prepared, experienced, albeit young, bluewater sailor. People on Facebook are now funding Rimas M. in an undertaking that is clearly regarded differently today than it was 50 years ago.

Now, circumnavigating no longer commands the same attention, fear and respect. People know about it, and it's apparently no big deal, other than the time element. It has been done a multitude of times in a multitude of different crafts. So much so, that we now have people considering it who have no idea what they are doing. And they find approval and encouragement here, instead of critical thinking and prudent advice.

It is the boat that matters, right? If you get the right bluewater boat, any Dude can do it! Go for it! (Just take your ASA 101-106 classes first.)
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Last edited by jameswilson29; 05-07-2014 at 01:08 PM.
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  #158  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Now, circumnavigating no longer commands the same attention, fear and respect. People know about it, and it's apparently no big deal, other than the time element. It has been done a multitude of times in a multitude of different crafts. So much so, that we now have people considering it who have no idea what they are doing. And they find approval and encouragement here, instead of critical thinking and prudent advice.
This, to me, is very presumptuous.

None of us has any idea how other people's plans evolve.

Just because someone comes here and asks how to go about doing a circumnavigation doesn't mean they are about to jump on a boat and rush off on an ill conceived journey.

It all starts somewhere.

If you don't know anything, you ask questions. You learn. You ask more questions. You experiment and try things out and see how it works, and learn more. And ask more questions. Gradually you gain experience and knowledge, you learn from your mistakes, you try something else. Repeat, over and over. Eventually you know enough to sail locally, regionally, maybe internationally, and who knows where it ends.

Each person reading this thread started somewhere, right ? None of us was born knowing how to sail, someone, somewhere, taught us, or we found another way to learn on our own.

That's what I see when I read the circumnavigation threads, it seems like someone is just exploring the idea to see what would be involved in doing something like that, what they would have to learn, etc, I never get the feeling they are about to throw off the dock lines and head out into the Atlantic.

One of the threads that this thread was posted in response to (I assume, maybe not ...) is a thread where someone simply asked how they would train for a circumnavigation. That sounds like a perfectly reasonable question for someone to ask in my opinion.
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  #159  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

I agree with both!

I dont understand why asking how to train for a circumnav would invite criticism?

how do you train for a marathon? well

diet, exercise, run 30 minutes in the mornin, 30 in the afternoon, diet again, sleep well drink lots of water, etc...

or should you answer:

oh no, dont do it, this isnt like walking, its dangerous, your life is in threat as those around you too...its not so simple, you need a lifetime of training to do one, its harder than climbing everest! blah blah blah

etc............................................... .................................

I think the points have been made

even when those of us objectively do ineed try to help, there will always be the complete cynics who just want to argue down the origiinal poster or question

having said that I can find good points made for both here on this thread

if everyone agreed life would be sad

cheers
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  #160  
Old 05-07-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

In the case of Rimas, there were several people who threw him a few bucks and publicly regretted it afterwards.

He barely...barely made it to San Francisco, had to be towed in to avoid being flushed out with the tide on his second attempt at entry. Then, he publicly announces that he's departing in 60 days to take his duct-taped vessel around Cape Horn.

During the winter. Duh.

Several sailors who supported him, and his trip back to San Fran renounced him and said that he should earn his own damned money to fix his boat, after he announced that he was leaving soon for Cape Horn.

I can give you a far more recent comparison of small boats and good vs. bad seamanship: Matt Rutherford, in an Albin Vega and Rimas.

Even Matt was shipping 25 gallons of water per day at the end, due to a badly leaking depth transducer through-hull.
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