Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads? - Page 18 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree348Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #171  
Old 05-07-2014
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,948
Thanks: 162
Thanked 74 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Švejk View Post
Here's a different perspective..
Great post, and welcome to SailNet. For your efforts you win this....


MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to MedSailor For This Useful Post:
Švejk (05-07-2014)
  #172  
Old 05-07-2014
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,962
Thanks: 27
Thanked 54 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 7
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post

Sailing is like playing piano. You can bang out "chopsticks" in a day, but you'll spend the rest of your life, perfecting the craft.
Old joke - A visitor to New York stops a local and asks, "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" The local responds, "practice, practice, practice."

Same for for sailing.
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #173  
Old 05-07-2014
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,917
Thanks: 5
Thanked 80 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
You will need at least one for your trip North. I could send you my spare?
oh pshaw .... next you'll be telling me you have learnt not only how to use two wheels but you have them at both ends of the axle.
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #174  
Old 05-10-2014
kzed's Avatar
Kzed
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
kzed is on a distinguished road
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Digital media has raised awareness of SAR events. Technology has resulted in greatly improved emergency notifications and responses. That does not mean that circumnavigators are a burden to society.

And people who are just chatting on forums and dreaming about it, we're only wasting a byte or two....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
I am not so sure about the existence of SAR data relevant to this particular discussion, involving these specifics:

offshore
recreational
sailboats

The USCG publishes SARS statistics, which I believe includes marine, aviation and PLB, commercial and recreational, offshore and inland, sailboats and powerboats. I would agree, in general, boating is safer and there are fewer overall SARs for the USCG. The general decline in gross numbers, which might simply reflect the improved safety of all vessels, inland boater safety education, and improvements in communications, do not necessarily reflect a specific trend in offshore, recreational sailboats.

(Knowing the government and the impulse to report favorably on an agency's success, I would also assume there have been changes in definitions, response methods and timing, and data gathering that have influenced how many SARs are reported, just as almost every other government statistic has been reworked. e.g. unemployment statistics, GDP, inflation, COLA, etc. We live in a golden age of successful govt.)

My hat is off to the brave members of the USCG SAR, who do a great job for us all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #175  
Old 05-10-2014
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,864
Thanks: 2
Thanked 100 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

"but I want to see the actual data. It must be available."
Statistics are not kept of all events. Nor are statistics gathered, centralized, or standardized for all events. That applies to SAR, cellphone robberies, and drunks breaking their toes against toilets in the middle of the night, pretty much equally. (Really, ask at any hospital ER. Indoor plumbing and alcohol are a really dangerous mix!)

Consider if you will, the "simple" concept of examining USCG statistics for SAR missions. Ooops, that's already going to be a bad count, since there are National Guard SAR units on both coasts--such as the one that rescued Rebel Heart recently. That's not a USCG operation, that's a military SAR mission. Odds are, it wouldn't be part of the same statistics.

Little things like that (and how many of us even knew the US military had separate SAR operations on both coasts? Not to mention, various state police, harbor patrols, and other agencies?) tend to make statistics very misleading, unless someone has taken great care to standardize and centralize the data. Or, someone takes even greater care trying to compile it.

Then there are incidents like the seasick crew that got on a satphone and called in a USCG SAR--without the sailboat's owner/skipper even knowing about it. Is that a SAR? When the captain of the vessel is unaware of the call?

Someone might have the stats. You could try USSA and the USCG for leads, but you may have to roll up your sleeves. And then...well, would the Mexican Navy be operating off Baja? And the Bahamian Defense Force (let's not forget, the Cubans have also made rescues) on the other coast?

Roll up your sleeves, there's probably a magazine article to be written once you get done.
jameswilson29 likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #176  
Old 05-10-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 616
Thanks: 33
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
abrahamx is on a distinguished road
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

I have not seen even one. Guess I cant answer the question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #177  
Old 05-10-2014
MikeOReilly's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 1,213
Thanks: 121
Thanked 56 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 5
MikeOReilly is on a distinguished road
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"but I want to see the actual data. It must be available."
HS, my point in asking for the data is that James is/was making some assertions regarding the apparent increase in boaters getting into trouble, most specifically those who are ill-prepared to be out there. If you're going to make these claims then some basic data would be useful.

Even if all the data is not available from all possible sources, surely some sort of statistical support for this claim is required. How about just looking at just one source: USCG, for example. Some evidence ... any evidence, would be useful.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #178  
Old 05-10-2014
MikeOReilly's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 1,213
Thanks: 121
Thanked 56 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 5
MikeOReilly is on a distinguished road
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

So, I spent about 5 minutes doing the most basic of searches using DuckDuckGo (my preferred general search tool). I easily came up with a whole database of USCG Accident Statistics (a fascinating tool), and more broader stats from COSPAS-SARSAT:


From the global stats you can see a general rise in alerts that COSPAS-SARSAT assisted with, although a rather stable level of alerts where COSPAS-SARSAT was the only responder. I can't interpret this without further analysis, but on the surface this could support James' top-level assertion.

I'm not looking to write an article on all this (although perhaps I should ). If I was then I would take the time to do the analysis. But my very cursory search suggests the data IS available.

I guess my real point is it kinda drives me nuts when unsupported assertions are made about things when data is available, and can actually answer the question. We don't have to guess, to rely on our small anecdotal experiences, or to rely on our gut. For these kinds of question, the answers are available if we take the time to look.
christian.hess likes this.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #179  
Old 05-10-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,009
Thanks: 0
Thanked 141 Times in 125 Posts
Rep Power: 5
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"but I want to see the actual data. It must be available."
Statistics are not kept of all events. Nor are statistics gathered, centralized, or standardized for all events. That applies to SAR, cellphone robberies, and drunks breaking their toes against toilets in the middle of the night, pretty much equally. (Really, ask at any hospital ER. Indoor plumbing and alcohol are a really dangerous mix!)

Consider if you will, the "simple" concept of examining USCG statistics for SAR missions. Ooops, that's already going to be a bad count, since there are National Guard SAR units on both coasts--such as the one that rescued Rebel Heart recently. That's not a USCG operation, that's a military SAR mission. Odds are, it wouldn't be part of the same statistics.

Little things like that (and how many of us even knew the US military had separate SAR operations on both coasts? Not to mention, various state police, harbor patrols, and other agencies?) tend to make statistics very misleading, unless someone has taken great care to standardize and centralize the data. Or, someone takes even greater care trying to compile it.

Then there are incidents like the seasick crew that got on a satphone and called in a USCG SAR--without the sailboat's owner/skipper even knowing about it. Is that a SAR? When the captain of the vessel is unaware of the call?

Someone might have the stats. You could try USSA and the USCG for leads, but you may have to roll up your sleeves. And then...well, would the Mexican Navy be operating off Baja? And the Bahamian Defense Force (let's not forget, the Cubans have also made rescues) on the other coast?

Roll up your sleeves, there's probably a magazine article to be written once you get done.
That's a very good analysis...

I think anyone who doesn't feel there has been an uptick in the frequency of abandonments sailing yachts in the last year or two is either in some sort of denial, or simply hasn't been paying attention :-) It's not that we simply hear about more of these incidents today due to the internet or social media, in my opinion. Now, whether the recent spate of such incidents represents a trend that will continue to rise, or simply a statistical anomaly of the past 2 years, remains to be seen... But, I challenge anyone to point to another time frame where we've seen the frequency of abandonments we've seen in recent memory...

Here's just some of what comes to my mind, I'm sure I'm forgetting some:

2 boats lost in last fall's SDR Rally, of course

The Swan 46 WOLFHOUND near Bermuda

The Canadian CS 36 abandoned after losing a rudder a few days out of the Cape Verdes...

REBEL HEART

Doug Sabbag's TRIUMPH

The Alpha 42 BE GOOD TOO in January

A trimaran off the Texas coast a couple of months ago

That Hunter found abandoned in the Gulf Coast, the YouTube video posted here

The Pearson 323 abandoned enroute to Bermuda and Europe last spring, that eventually fetched up on the beach on Martha's Vineyard

The 32' Aloha abandoned off the Florida Keys this winter, eventually grounded on Singer Island

The 50' Beneteau BLUE PEARL, abandoned after sinking NE of Bermuda 2 weeks ago

3 European sailors rescued near Sable Island last September on passage to the Azores

An AMVER rescue last November after the abandonment of the junk-rigged schooner EASY GO, which departed Nova Scotia bound for the Caribbean

Pretty certain there was at least one abandonment off Oregon/N Calif last fall/winter, can't recall the specifics

Those Polish morons rescued mid-Atlantic attempting to sail from Europe to N America in January 2013, if memory serves

These are just the ones I recall at the moment, given more time I have little doubt I, or others, could add to the list...

Sorry, anyone who thinks these purely 'anecdotal' numbers were being matched 5 or 10 years ago by sailors going to sea for pleasure, then punching out, is dreaming... :-)
jameswilson29 likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #180  
Old 05-10-2014
christian.hess's Avatar
"Nubile Southern Sailor"
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Columbus, Ga
Posts: 4,313
Thanks: 160
Thanked 172 Times in 168 Posts
Rep Power: 2
christian.hess is on a distinguished road
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

there is a word for it but its not politically correct but basically its the push button masses that go cruising now and any little thing that goes bad, like a bad HAIR DAY is considered rescueable

and distress...

to blame in part is all the new technology that makes it so easy now for people to "follow" you, text while at sea...and basically have internet, tv basically everything you have home out there, now you arent really out there anyways

you are just a call away from help or whatever

the spike is due to this

NOT boat design, not materials, not the weather, global waming, whatever

its cruisers views now on what constitutes an abandon boat scenario that has changed

not in 100 percent of cases but damn high up there
__________________
Islander 36 now FOR SALE!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's the most absurd seller statement you've heard CatMan22 General Discussion (sailing related) 36 10-13-2013 05:49 PM
Can't post new threads....although here i am doing that DubeJ Announcements and Suggestions Box 2 03-26-2012 04:10 PM
Old Threads: Useful or Not? Shack General Discussion (sailing related) 11 04-20-2009 01:21 PM
Old Threads......... AjariBonten General Discussion (sailing related) 20 10-05-2007 11:12 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:46 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.