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  #181  
Old 05-10-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I think anyone who doesn't feel there has been an uptick in the frequency of abandonments sailing yachts in the last year or two is either in some sort of denial, or simply hasn't been paying attention :-) It's not that we simply hear about more of these incidents today due to the internet or social media, in my opinion.
I hope you're not referring to my post Jon, implying that I'm denying anything. I'm not saying you're incorrect, I'm just saying the information IS available if someone is willing to look. Instead of giving me anecdote and opinion, and then opining on what your gut says, why not just do the work to look at the info.

As I said, I spent all of 5 minutes and found some decent sources that might reveal whether your observations are correct. Or they may suggest something else. I don't know. Your observations, as a long-time cruiser, are good, but I would rather use actual data -- which IS available if you care to spend the time to look.
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Last edited by MikeOReilly; 05-10-2014 at 11:29 AM.
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  #182  
Old 05-10-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

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Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
to blame in part is all the new technology that makes it so easy now for people to "follow" you, text while at sea...and basically have internet, tv basically everything you have home out there, now you arent really out there anyways
This is what my gut tells me as well . But I've learned that sometimes my gut is wrong . This feels a bit like the old folks complaining about "these kids today...". Invariably these kinds of biased observations are incorrect, or at the very least only give a partial picture.
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  #183  
Old 05-10-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

I dream of sailing the world.

I dream of sailing around.

I dream of sailing.

But not around the world.

I think novices read and see romanticized accounts of sailing around the world and because they know so little of sailing and it's broad history...they choose that vision as their dream.

Whereas if they knew about Dylan Winter and his ktl enterprise or Vega Lealea dawdling about in the PNW/Hawaii/Alaska (e.g.) ...which in my view are great examples of how to sail...sail around...and sail the world...many might choose a much more reasonable approach to the sailing lifestyle.
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  #184  
Old 05-10-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
oh pshaw .... next you'll be telling me you have learnt not only how to use two wheels but you have them at both ends of the axle.

Nope, the wheels fell of my trolley a long time ago. Just need to get rid of the axles.
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  #185  
Old 05-10-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
That's a very good analysis...

I think anyone who doesn't feel there has been an uptick in the frequency of abandonments sailing yachts in the last year or two is either in some sort of denial, or simply hasn't been paying attention :-) It's not that we simply hear about more of these incidents today due to the internet or social media, in my opinion. Now, whether the recent spate of such incidents represents a trend that will continue to rise, or simply a statistical anomaly of the past 2 years, remains to be seen... But, I challenge anyone to point to another time frame where we've seen the frequency of abandonments we've seen in recent memory...

Here's just some of what comes to my mind, I'm sure I'm forgetting some:

2 boats lost in last fall's SDR Rally, of course

The Swan 46 WOLFHOUND near Bermuda

The Canadian CS 36 abandoned after losing a rudder a few days out of the Cape Verdes...

REBEL HEART

Doug Sabbag's TRIUMPH

The Alpha 42 BE GOOD TOO in January

A trimaran off the Texas coast a couple of months ago

That Hunter found abandoned in the Gulf Coast, the YouTube video posted here

The Pearson 323 abandoned enroute to Bermuda and Europe last spring, that eventually fetched up on the beach on Martha's Vineyard

The 32' Aloha abandoned off the Florida Keys this winter, eventually grounded on Singer Island

The 50' Beneteau BLUE PEARL, abandoned after sinking NE of Bermuda 2 weeks ago

3 European sailors rescued near Sable Island last September on passage to the Azores

An AMVER rescue last November after the abandonment of the junk-rigged schooner EASY GO, which departed Nova Scotia bound for the Caribbean

Pretty certain there was at least one abandonment off Oregon/N Calif last fall/winter, can't recall the specifics

Those Polish morons rescued mid-Atlantic attempting to sail from Europe to N America in January 2013, if memory serves

These are just the ones I recall at the moment, given more time I have little doubt I, or others, could add to the list...

Sorry, anyone who thinks these purely 'anecdotal' numbers were being matched 5 or 10 years ago by sailors going to sea for pleasure, then punching out, is dreaming... :-)
Guess those East coast sailors might need to go back to school....
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  #186  
Old 05-11-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I think anyone who doesn't feel there has been an uptick in the frequency of abandonments sailing yachts in the last year or two is either in some sort of denial, or simply hasn't been paying attention :-) It's not that we simply hear about more of these incidents today due to the internet or social media, in my opinion.
I hope you're not referring to my post Jon, implying that I'm denying anything. I'm not saying you're incorrect, I'm just saying the information IS available if someone is willing to look. Instead of giving me anecdote and opinion, and then opining on what your gut says, why not just do the work to look at the info.

As I said, I spent all of 5 minutes and found some decent sources that might reveal whether your observations are correct. Or they may suggest something else. I don't know. Your observations, as a long-time cruiser, are good, but I would rather use actual data -- which IS available if you care to spend the time to look.
Tell you what, why don't YOU provide the "data" that casts doubt upon my OPINION that the recent spate of abandonments/offshore rescues over the past 2-3 years that I've cited above SEEMS unprecedented... :-)

The "News Feeds" archives of Sailnet currently go back to 2006. Virtually any boating mishap worthy of note seems to make it into the News Feed section, so that might be as good a place as any to begin one's search... If there have been equal or greater numbers of such incidents over a similar time frame during the past 8 years, they should be chronicled among those 1,900 pages and 15,000 entries in the News Feed archives, no?

Anyone who "cares to spend the time to look", they should have at it... :-)
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  #187  
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Tell you what, why don't YOU provide the "data" that casts doubt upon my OPINION that the recent spate of abandonments/offshore rescues over the past 2-3 years that I've cited above SEEMS unprecedented... :-)

The "News Feeds" archives of Sailnet currently go back to 2006. Virtually any boating mishap worthy of note seems to make it into the News Feed section, so that might be as good a place as any to begin one's search... If there have been equal or greater numbers of such incidents over a similar time frame during the past 8 years, they should be chronicled among those 1,900 pages and 15,000 entries in the News Feed archives, no?

Anyone who "cares to spend the time to look", they should have at it... :-)

Since you are the one making the claim, it would seem the burden is on you. I don't really care. I'm simply being skeptical regarding your claim in absence of actual data. It may be true, but it may not. I don't know, but the answer is available if you care to look.

Recall, this thread began with a claim that there is an increase in SAR events connected to an increasingly ill-prepared group of cruisers. No evidence presented. Just based on anecdote. I might still not care enough to respond, despite the lack of credible evidence, but attached to this was a fairly clear moral judgement as to character of these people. At this point I think it is incumbent on all reasonable people to stand up and ask for at least some level of evidence.

I don't understand why anyone would be antagonistic to such a request. I spent a few minutes and found some useful data. This suggests the information is available. If you're going to question the character of others based on an apparent factual claim shouldn't you spend at least a few minutes supporting that claim?


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  #188  
Old 05-11-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

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Originally Posted by vega1860 View Post
Mexico
Free advice: (Received from a PNW sailor and passed on as true and correct in our opinion) Save Alaska for last.
more free advice..Save Alaska for the summer months, Save mexixo for the winter months.
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  #189  
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

What strikes me after 35y of coastal sailing and a couple of dozen of 1k offshore jaunts is how unprepared I am for a circumnavigation The skill set is different. No it can until landfall. No I'll hit the yard/ chandlery and get it fixed/ replaced. All the cutting edge technologies are no help if broken. None replace seamanship or sleep. None keep fear or fatigue at bay. This concept that if I have the best boat withe best stuff in it I'm protected from the vagarities of the ocean creates arrogance and SAR calls.
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  #190  
Old 05-11-2014
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Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Mike, I agree with you in general but still say statistics will be deceptive.

For instance,"an uptick in the frequency of abandonments sailing yachts in the last year or two ". OK. How's the weather? Right, in the last 50 years there have been major increases in the range and strength of tornados and extreme weather in the US alone. Tornados were "once in a hundred year" events in many places like New England, now they are routine in storm season. So, do we filter out vessels in distress by the number of extreme weather days at sea, as well?

Or perhaps, how's the economy been? If the last crash is past and folks are spending money again, and boating in general is up...maybe the uptick in rescues just reflects more boaters on the water? Caused by any number of factors?

Of course it could be another mental health system failure, letting all the crazies loose on the streets and eventually the docks. And that's not entirely implausible. Or it could be related to cell phones and the internet. I recall very clearly the first time I watched a live webcam feed from the SOUTH POLE and said to myself, holy **it, the south pole and the top of Everest, the world really has become a different place. Maybe folks just have lost their fear of "here be dragons" as the dragons are now, well, all on the web too?

Or maybe the Nooze are just finding out this is good drama, it sells commercial time better than worrying folks over that Putin fellow and WW3, or all the genocides that keep happening.

Statistics. Drama. Bottom line, what difference does it make? So more people are talking or doing or (ooops) failing at circumnavigation. When I was a kid, you could DREAM about going to Mt. Everest. But wtf would have had the nightmare of being stuck in a climbers' traffic jam way the hell out there?!

Different world every day, every year. Unicorns, purple dinosaurs, sailing away to Shangri-La (and the canal system through those mountains is amazing(G) ) who knows.

Statistics? File under stamp collecting and bonsai gardening, interesting hobby but of limited practical purpose, unless you really really get the details straight. Which is a process we are generally clueless about. Even, and especially, on The Nooze.
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