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  #121  
Old 06-18-2014
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Re: Smallest boat you can live with

I wanted standing headroom, my wife wanted an enclosed head. So our boat is 29ft. Had a 42ft ketch, cost waaaay too much for everything.
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  #122  
Old 06-19-2014
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Exclamation Re: Smallest boat you can live with

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Yeah..... We changed our mind. We could have gone the smaller boat, but for just a little bit more money and a little bit of a bigger boat, we could get a WHOLE LOT MORE. So, we did. ... The new ride has a diesel gen-set that is nearly as big as the Formosa's motor, it has TWO air conditioners, 3 fridge/freezers, an electric winch, a sauna (yes it does), and more electronics than downtown Tokyo... MedSailor
Let's see how it plays out in a coupla years ... when the honeymoon's over. I'm sure it's a nice condo but the essence of sailing is sailing not button mashing. And name something that goes out of date faster than electronics. Your heaven sounds like my hell.
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  #123  
Old 06-19-2014
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Re: Smallest boat you can live with

tggzzz alludes to the classic approach-avoidance conflict many sailors have. With the gismos you can single hand the 40-50' boat. This allows the average retired or semi retired couple to cruise or snowbird. Absent the AP and supporting electronics, the various ways to get weather info and stay in touch actual sailing to new places becomes more problematic. However, now going through the learning curve I realize all too well every addition adds complexity, dependency ,expense and maintenance/time requirements. But with out these additions likelihood of becoming a marina queen increases.
The other issue is camping versus comfy living. Once above ~40' you both have your space. You are not tripping over each other to do simple activities of daily living. Quality of life improves dramatically and your wife won't bail on you but rather look forward to the new destination.
My last boat was a great boat- a PSC34. After a week my wife couldn't wait to get off. It required a another level of diplomacy to wiggle around each other or wait your turn. On the current boat this is a non issue. Yes the flat screen is not necessary but watching the Yanks v. the Sox is great. Yes, diesel heat and the AC are unnecessary but when too cold or too hot personalities go south and so does thinking leading to unsafe behaviors. Yes two heads are unnecessary but a blessing when two couples are on the boat. Yes three multidisplays are unnecessary but makes passagemakng more secure and its great to not suit up or go down below to see whats going on. On a cold wet day hiding under the hard dodger with AP controls and a screen in front of you makes a single handed watch in the early AM fun not a chore with music playing softly in the cockpit speakers.
If you plan right and don't go so large that you are totally dependent on the power winches and can switch over to DR and a winch handle I think the honeymoon will never be over and your honey will greet you with a kiss at the change of watch. Problem is there are increasingly fewer true sea boats being built and more and more condos.
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Last edited by outbound; 06-19-2014 at 09:39 AM.
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  #124  
Old 06-19-2014
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Re: Smallest boat you can live with

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
If you plan right and don't go so large that you are totally dependent on the power winches and can switch over to DR and a winch handle I think the honeymoon will never be over and your honey will greet you with a kiss at the change of watch. Problem is there are increasingly fewer true sea boats being built and more and more condos.
We were very cognizant of going too big, and deciding not to downsize (but also not upsize) took a lot of debate and discussion. Part of how we felt about our Formosa 41 was that she was too big in some ways. She wasn't too big for us before, but now that we have a kid (and another on the way) she WAS too big.

Sounds counter-intuitive doesn't it? Basically, she wasn't set up for single-handing at all, and we quickly realized that once the little tyke goes mobile, boating becomes a single-handing operation with one parent on kid watch and one sailing the boat. Suddenly, "honey can you help me flake the huge mainsail" or even "can you hold her head to wind" aren't possible. So, a boat we could easily single-hand was top of the list.

Many of the conveniences we have support that idea (and lots are just total fluff). The lesurefurl boom for example is a great asset as reefing, raising and lowering the biggest sail on the boat is now easy. They have a good reputation for reliability and unlike in-main furling there is less to go wrong and raising and lowering can be easily achieved the old fashioned way if it breaks. This may mean not needing to disturb the off watch for reefing. That would be nice. The bow-thruster may enable single-handed docking more often than without.

The electric winch is totally unnecessary. The running rigging zig-zags all over the boat and the angles are horrific. I'm looking forward to re-running some of the rigging and I expect I can reduce the friction in the system significantly.

As for the rest of the toys, I see tggzzz's point and that is always going to be a fear with the choice we've made, but on the other hand, I hope that Outbound is right. We've been doing this for 15 years without any of the toys and I don't plan to let myself get dependent on any of them. I may use them, but I don't plan to become dependent on them.

You know what my favorite new toy in the picture below is? It's the full sized chart table that sits right in front of the wheel! The toys to the right are toys to be enjoyed, but the chart table right at the helm is the real seller for me!


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  #125  
Old 06-19-2014
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Re: Smallest boat you can live with

Med just don't get to comfy in that pilothouse. Your tan will fade.
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  #126  
Old 06-19-2014
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Re: Smallest boat you can live with

Looks cool. I hope you get it by the Fourth of July. I think it's a rare treat to be on a boat in the San Juan's on the fourth. I'm looking forward to it.
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  #127  
Old 08-29-2014
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Re: Smallest boat you can live with

Have to say the Cheoy Lee 27 was my favorite boat...perfect mix of traditional and modern, easy to handle and could go anywhere. That being said I am a confirmed minimalist--looked for rough Electra or Kittiwake in my region for a long time (also a confirmed Alberg fan). Finally found one for next to nothing, welded up a trailer and brought her home to the barn for a re-fit. Sure it's tight below, but I'm modding her for single-handing both above and below decks...the little Electra sails well and for her size will handle a lot...we'll see when she's finished. That being said I felt a small bit of remorse when I happened along one of her 26' bigger sisters shortly after bringing her home.
Really it's just a matter of finding a happy medium between what you like and what you need. Big doesn't necessarily mean capable...look what John Guzzwell did in little "Trekka..."
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  #128  
Old 08-30-2014
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Re: Smallest boat you can live with

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltthesalt View Post
I wanted standing headroom, my wife wanted an enclosed head. So our boat is 29ft. Had a 42ft ketch, cost waaaay too much for everything.
I've got a 42 footer now. I often think fondly back on the 32 footer I had before it. Just the increased marina rates really adds up after a while. I though it was neat having two heads at first. But, it really means twice the head maintenance, which is really the worst job on the boat.

And, every time I have moved up in size. (25 - 32 - 42) it has becomes correspondingly more work. I think I could still have sailed my old 25D Cape Dory, or my Cal 25, by myself when I hit 75 ( 56 now). I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do that with the one I have now.

But, it does have a lot of room when you're anchored or tied up somewhere.
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  #129  
Old 08-30-2014
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Re: Smallest boat you can live with

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltthesalt View Post
I wanted standing headroom,...
This was it for us as well, no fun stooping all the time, too old for that. Also an inboard. The Catalina 27 was about the smallest boat around here with both items.
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  #130  
Old 08-30-2014
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Re: Smallest boat you can live with

When considering the size of the boat I decided to start to renovate, a lot of factors came into play. I guess my first parameter was seaworthiness, followed by cost to fix up and cost of future maintenance. I'm also a big fan of simplicity and wanted to maintain the feel of a sailboat, not a floating collection of gadgets and canvas. The old, narrow configuration of my A35 seems like about the minimum amount of space to be somewhat comfortable even for one person. Two is possible with a bit of rearranging.

The amount of gear that needs to be stowed below for long term cruising fills every available nook and cranny, including both sides of the v-berth and the one main cabin bunk I don't use. I keep the decks clear, not cluttered with stuff to trip over or worry about when it gets snotty. So it all goes below. The liferaft comes up when offshore.

For short term cruising it would be entirely different but I take off for months at a time and need to be prepared for anything that might happen. That supports the idea above that it all depends on how you plan to use the boat. For long term cruising, I don't know how you would fit RIB, bike, liferaft, sails, food, extra water, kayak, clothes, tools, sewing machine, many replacement parts, extra anchors, fiberglass supplies, paints, extra lines of many sorts, blocks, electronics, wetsuits, extra fuel, adequate fenders and fender boards, stove fuel, books, emergency signaling kit, sea anchor, drogue, ditch bag, chain and fittings, sewing kit, sailcloth, etc. in anything much smaller than 35'.
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Last edited by smurphny; 08-30-2014 at 09:02 AM.
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