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  #71  
Old 06-23-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

The S&S 39 clearly shares a lot of DNA with the S&S designed Tartan 41
1972 Tartan 41 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

The S&S designed Swan 41:
1974 Swan 41 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

and the slightly later S&S Designed Tartan 37.
1979 Tartan 37 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

or the cool little S&S quarter Tonner, that I owned during that period. A North Star 500 QT
NORTH STAR 500 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

I spent a lot of time aboard Tartan 41's. At the time we were amazed at how great these boats seemed compared to the boats which came before them. I can remember coming back from a race on the Tartan and the crew was sitting around talking about the performance of the boat, especially upwind and the big leap in sail handling gear, and verbalizing that we could not imagine boats getting any faster or more advanced.

But within a year, a J-36 showed up in town and certainly demonstrated that it was possible to be faster and easier to handle, especially in heavy going.

Jeff
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  #72  
Old 06-24-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
The S&S 39 clearly shares a lot of DNA with the S&S designed Tartan 41
1972 Tartan 41 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I spent a lot of time aboard Tartan 41's. At the time we were amazed at how great these boats seemed compared to the boats which came before them. I can remember coming back from a race on the Tartan and the crew was sitting around talking about the performance of the boat, especially upwind and the big leap in sail handling gear, and verbalizing that we could not imagine boats getting any faster or more advanced.

But within a year, a J-36 showed up in town and certainly demonstrated that it was possible to be faster and easier to handle, especially in heavy going.

Jeff
I wonder how that J-36 would have held up at the start of the Cape to Rio race?
Chaos to Champagne for WA?s Perie Banou II?s in 2014 Cape2Rio - Yachting WA - FOX SPORTS PULSE
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  #73  
Old 06-24-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

there is a j36 down here that was cruised down here only to be snapped off a mooring, hit a pier and suffered so much damage the owner left the boat for a buck to the guy taking care of the moorings...

while that can happen to many boats I really honestly beleive there is no comparison bewteen buildin styles, "overall" strength and overall design...

apples and oranges these boats compared to these previous designs being talked about I honestly have a hard time understanding why people compare them again just me.

I do like the j boats especially the j30 and 24.

anywhoo
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  #74  
Old 06-24-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I wonder how that J-36 would have held up at the start of the Cape to Rio race?
Chaos to Champagne for WA?s Perie Banou II?s in 2014 Cape2Rio - Yachting WA - FOX SPORTS PULSE
It probably would have held up about as well as ISKAREEN which finished 9 days ahead of PERIE BANOU ROLLY TASKER, or AMTEC WITS ALADDIN (a Farr 11.6 sistership of my boat but with an open transom and sugar scoop added) which finished 4 days ahead of PERIE BANOU ROLLY TASKER with a smaller less experienced crew.

But I suspect that PERIE BANOU ROLLY TASKER had a more comfortable ride than a J-36 would have had.

And for the record, I did not bring up the J-36 as a comparason to the S&S 34, but more to put into context of the amazing experience of sailing these S&S designed early IOR and late RORC boats when they were comparatively new designs in the 1970's, as well as, the mindset of sailing during that era (or any era for that matter) and thinking that boats cannot get any faster than they are, and noting how in each era there are raceboats which feel like the ultimate possible pinnacle speed only to have the next generation show up and demonstrate the vanity of those feelings.

Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 06-25-2014 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Syntax and spelling
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  #75  
Old 06-24-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

To once more add a few facts to clarify:
I lent one of my crew to Perie Banou for the Cape 2 Rio race. Perie Banou is set up for single handed cruising, the racing is incidental. The max. sail area is so small she actually rates better than my S&S 34. They did have a nasty storm near the start, with 20m+ waves coming from different directions, some of which were "pyramidal". PB did handle all this well, arguably better than most others in the race. But the rest of the race was in light winds, and she does NOT handle these well, certainly not as well as the boats Jeff was talking about. But did sail reasonably to her rating to be 2nd in her Division.

As a design, the S&S 39 is incredibly strong, seaworthy, & rather heavy. The interior is not as well planned (IMO) as the 34 but is significantly roomier. The design doesn't quite hit the same "sweet spot" as the 34 in terms of performance and the 34 will always beat the 39 on handicap and often over the line. Look at how relatively small the "sharks fin"keel is. They are not quite so good to windward either. It is a slightly different compromise in design.

But when the going gets tough they give an extra layer of solidity, comfort and reassurance, I think even beyond the 34. As a long distance blue water cruiser it would be well worth considering. Funny, I have never heard anyone complain about the bridge deck...
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  #76  
Old 06-24-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torvie View Post
To once more add a few facts to clarify:
I lent one of my crew to Perie Banou for the Cape 2 Rio race. Perie Banou is set up for single handed cruising, the racing is incidental. The max. sail area is so small she actually rates better than my S&S 34. They did have a nasty storm near the start, with 20m+ waves coming from different directions, some of which were "pyramidal". PB did handle all this well, arguably better than most others in the race. But the rest of the race was in light winds, and she does NOT handle these well, certainly not as well as the boats Jeff was talking about. But did sail reasonably to her rating to be 2nd in her Division.

As a design, the S&S 39 is incredibly strong, seaworthy, & rather heavy. The interior is not as well planned (IMO) as the 34 but is significantly roomier. The design doesn't quite hit the same "sweet spot" as the 34 in terms of performance and the 34 will always beat the 39 on handicap and often over the line. Look at how relatively small the "sharks fin"keel is. They are not quite so good to windward either. It is a slightly different compromise in design.

But when the going gets tough they give an extra layer of solidity, comfort and reassurance, I think even beyond the 34. As a long distance blue water cruiser it would be well worth considering. Funny, I have never heard anyone complain about the bridge deck...
I was always curious as to why Jon Sanders went to a S&S39 (and often single hands the 39) after his double in his own S&S34. Any insight?
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  #77  
Old 06-25-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

The link below is a blog of an S&S 39 that recently completed a circumnavigation

Pachuca Circumnavigation

When I looked at a couple of S&s 39's a few years ago one of the issues was the back cabin. Very badly designed with about 5ft of head space and awkward to move around in, with plenty of things to bang your head against.

Ilenart
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  #78  
Old 06-25-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torvie View Post
To once more add a few facts to clarify:
I lent one of my crew to Perie Banou for the Cape 2 Rio race. Perie Banou is set up for single handed cruising, the racing is incidental. The max. sail area is so small she actually rates better than my S&S 34. They did have a nasty storm near the start, with 20m+ waves coming from different directions, some of which were "pyramidal". PB did handle all this well, arguably better than most others in the race. But the rest of the race was in light winds, and she does NOT handle these well, certainly not as well as the boats Jeff was talking about. But did sail reasonably to her rating to be 2nd in her Division.

As a design, the S&S 39 is incredibly strong, seaworthy, & rather heavy. The interior is not as well planned (IMO) as the 34 but is significantly roomier. The design doesn't quite hit the same "sweet spot" as the 34 in terms of performance and the 34 will always beat the 39 on handicap and often over the line. Look at how relatively small the "sharks fin"keel is. They are not quite so good to windward either. It is a slightly different compromise in design.

But when the going gets tough they give an extra layer of solidity, comfort and reassurance, I think even beyond the 34. As a long distance blue water cruiser it would be well worth considering. Funny, I have never heard anyone complain about the bridge deck...
Thanks Torvie,

I just learned something.

I forget to say it before - Welcome to Sailnet and thanks for sharing your knowledge, experience and opinions here I hope you hang around.
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  #79  
Old 06-25-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

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Originally Posted by Torvie View Post
Funny, I have never heard anyone complain about the bridge deck...
I don't know, I'll bet if you stuck one of those among the boats in the brokerage section at the Annapolis Boat Show, it might elicit a comment, or two... :-)

I'll admit, I'm somewhat of a 'special case' when it comes to companionways on small boats. I'm 6'5", and have a pair of 14" stainless steel rods screwed to my spine courtesy of an old skiing accident, so I'm a bit less 'flexible' than most, and a high bridgedeck/low dodger combo just doesn't work well for me :-)

Even if that were not the case, however, I'd still rate the ergonomics of the companionway as one of the most important design features of any boat, particularly a cruising boat. Few features are more likely to become an immediate deal-breaker, for me. it's impossible to underestimate how routinely you navigate that space while living aboard, or during an extended cruise, or how often you wind up performing somewhat awkward or delicate maneuvers such as passing food or drinks up to those in the cockpit underway. As one who has had the opportunity to run a pretty wide assortment of boats, I'd say the #1 feature of a boat most likely to become a real annoyance over the course of a delivery, is probably the design of the companionway and cockpit in general... my most recent trip was on a Pacific Seacraft Crealock 44, a marvelous boat. But, when I finally clambered out over that bridgedeck for the last time, it was truly a cause for celebration :-)

In my opinion, it's more than a simple matter of comfort, or convenience. In sporty sailing conditions, it becomes a real matter of safety. Having to contort one's body into an awkward or unbalanced position, in a spot where sharp edges or corners abound, often when wearling bulky foul weather gear, at the top of a steep ladder descending below, can be a recipe for disaster... Especially for aging sailors, I think the importance of a companionway that can be passed through with relative ease cannot be overstated...

One of my favorite builders of companionways has always been Sabre Yachts... They consistently seem to get it right, striking just the right balance between a secure bridgedeck offshore, and a comfortable 'stairway' rather than a ladder leading below. A real pity Sabre is now out of the sailboat business, but this is about as well as it can be done on a 36-footer, in my view...


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  #80  
Old 06-25-2014
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Re: Boats like S&S 34

I agree re the bridge deck, we have a half board we can fit in rough weather, not quite as watertight but a lot easier the other 99% of the time. It's just that I don't remember the bridge deck on the 39 being all that awkward and no-one I know who has sailed on one has complained about it either. So perhaps the design wasn't so bad on the 39. I will try to pay more attention next time I am on board! But I am a lot shorter and maybe don't notice it as much.

I don't worry too much about boat show type comments, the perspective is quite different to most blue water sailors, I think it gets back to my earlier comment about what most yachts are actually used for. The ones that look best at the show/when anchored aren't necessarily so when at sea. But I do agree about how often you go in and out of a companionway and my reply to someone who suggested raising our hatchway lip several inches "for safety" was almost word for word what Jon has said.

I also agree re the poor space utilisation on the 39, especially aft, where there isn't really enough space for a cabin of any use, it is really just a bigger version of what we have on the 34.
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