Making an offer for a sailboat - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 06-13-2014
scratchee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 373
Thanks: 4
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 3
scratchee is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

Archimedes,

I saw a very nice Cal 2-29 in the Baltimore area last week (anybody know Wildfire?.) The owners told me they are considering selling her so they can move up. I didn't ask how much they thought she was worth, but I was kinda blown away by how nice that boat was. An average Cal 2-29 (not this one) might go for something in the $15k range. I have a Cal 2-27 and can recommend this line of boats for the use you described.

As a general comment, I occasionally see boats for sale that are clearly being sold by someone who bought them many years ago when the market was much different than it is now. These people have not paid attention to the market and have had an idea in their mind for all these years about what their boat was worth. I pity them for the rude awakening that they will surely have after a few weeks. This phenomenon may account for some of the prices you've seen, though probably not all.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 06-13-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
archimedes is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

Thanks for the inputs guys.

I think I might add the Cal 2-29 to the list - nice boat.

A factor I hadn't considered and am noticing more now is the length of time some boats sit on the market. I guess that goes to the point raised about the change in the boat market. The boat I looked at today has been for sale for almost 3 yrs.

I guess I just need to get more comfortable offering what I think it is worth to me irrespective of the asking price - within reason of course.

But if a boats has been on the market for years and years that should be a pretty good indication that the asking price is too high. Or maybe the seller isn't really interested in selling.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 06-14-2014
capta's Avatar
Master Mariner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere in the Windward or Leeward Islands
Posts: 1,381
Thanks: 12
Thanked 65 Times in 60 Posts
Rep Power: 4
capta is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

Absolutely the worst thing one can do to a boat is not use it. If a boat has been for sale for 3 years, you can be pretty sure than much of her equipment; fresh water system, roller furling gear, engine and windlass, etc. has not been used very much.
That may mean a terrific opportunity for someone who can do the work necessary to bring all the gear back into service, but not for someone who must hire that work out.
Purchasing a boat in the spring or early summer, rather than the late fall or winter, will make getting a great deal harder, so if you can wait, you can save big.
Offer much less than you are willing to spend; you can always come back with a better offer if your first is refused. This is a business deal and feelings shouldn't come into play. A low offer shouldn't embarrass you, nor should it offend the seller. You either come to an agreement that suits you both or you move on; there are plenty of good boats out there.
I purchased my boat for around 2/3rds of the asking price, so don't let a high asking price prevent you from making an offer.
Good luck.
__________________
"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 06-14-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Orlando
Posts: 83
Thanks: 33
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 1
Hush34 is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

The NADA people specialize in automobiles not sailboats. There are so many variations to consider between boats of the same make and model. When dealing with sailboats look at the model you are interested in on a boat buying website like Yachtworld.com or sailboat listings.com. After you back out the cost of brokers (10% in most cases) from the averages you will have an idea what the market is asking. Last thing you have to do is figure out what you want to pay and make an offer. Don't be a silly ass and l low ball the hell the owner of a boat you really want...I had a guy do this to me and I told him to pound sand...even when he came back with more reasonable offers I refused to deal with him. Anyway, it is a buyer market so come up with a reasonable offer and you may be surprised that you get the boat you want for the price you feel is fair to pay.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 06-14-2014
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,036
Thanks: 26
Thanked 64 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

Fair market value is what a willing buyer pays to a willing seller.

Boats are not cars. Cars are necessities and sell in high volume. Their value is not so dependent on economic conditions. Cars are "fungible" and generally have fewer variations in value as boats do.

For most buyers, a boat is a luxury item. There is no need to buy one. It's value is much more elastic and depends upon economic conditions.

There are several factors to consider:

1. Supply is much greater than demand. Sailing is a dying sport/hobby/activity; there are fewer and fewer participants in the market. Buyer demand has fallen. The heyday was in the 70s and 80s, when supply was plentiful. Boats have lasted longer than anyone ever expected. There has been only incremental functional improvements in recreational sailboats in the last 50 years. There are now many more boats that can supply the functional enjoyment of sailing than there are potential buyers.

2. Fewer folks can afford to own a keelboat due to the economic recession. Discretionary income has fallen. Few are willing to shoulder the ongoing expenses associated with keelboat ownership: slip rental, maintenance, and operating expenses.

3. Most boats are barely used. Walk down the docks of any marina, any day of the week. The majority of boats are rarely, if ever used.

4. There is a lack of accurate market information due to low volume and a lack of any centralized accurate sales price informatin. Boats take a long time to sell. Many owners do not need to sell. Owners are hesitant to fully comprehend the concept of market value; they believe their boat is worth a certain amount, regardless of market conditions. Some owners do not accept the idea that they will never recover the money they have spent on improving their vessels. Contrary to broker bullshizzle, a boat is not an "investment" - boats are depreciating property with high ongoing expenses.

Your best bet is to educate yourself, be skeptical of all the marketing B.S., become aware of the supply and what sellers are willing to sell for. You should become your own market expert, and not rely on someone who will make money off your ignorance.

There are some motivated sellers out there who are going through financial distress, divorces, business failures, etc. Those are the ones you want to buy from. Look for well-maintained boats whose owners recently improved with new sails, new inboard, new electronics and other costly "improvements", not knowing that there financials circumstances would take a downturn.
Tempest and theonecalledtom like this.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 06-14-2014 at 08:17 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 06-14-2014
JimsCAL's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 2,387
Thanks: 1
Thanked 34 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 8
JimsCAL is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

When I was selling my previous boat and buying my current one about 4 years ago, I looked at NADA and BUCValu prices. I found them to be of limited value, especially on older boats. The problem is they don't have enough sales data, so it appears they use some sort of a depreciation factor to generate the number. As noted, soldboats.com is the best source as it gives you actual recent sales. But it is for boating professionals only. If you are working with a broker , he should be willing to give you a report with recent sales of the boat model you are considering.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 06-14-2014
blutoyz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 640
Thanks: 10
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 2
blutoyz is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

NADA values are worthless

You offer what it is worth to you so if you look at a boat they are asking $15K for and you see it worth $10K then that is your offer. If you have cash and they are tired of sitting on the boat you may actually be doing them a favor.

P.S. - If you are finding boats in the 27'-31' range overpriced you are looking in the wrong places
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 06-14-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 1,919
Thanks: 14
Thanked 62 Times in 60 Posts
Rep Power: 8
miatapaul is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

I will have to say I think NADA has some value, and like it or not it will likely be used for any insurance claims unless you have an agreed value policy. Boats I see that sell quickly are normally not too far from NADA value. It really depends on how fast you need to buy or sell. If you are willing to let a boat sit on the market for years go by what people are listing on Yachtworld, if you want to sell quickly go more by NADA. I have had my eyes on Yachtworld for a long time and a rough estimate I would say at least half the boats listed have been on there four years or more, at least in the northeast. Even if you go to Sailboat listings it is not uncommon to see listings that were posted in 2011. To me that says one thing, they are asking too much, or it is not really for sale. I will say sometime NADA values are surprisingly high, other times very low. There have been some cases here that people say they paid significantly less than what the sale shows on soldboats so even that may not be 100% accurate.

If you think your NADA is half than actual value then good luck with getting what you want. Even if your boat is mint.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 06-14-2014
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,679
Thanks: 165
Thanked 38 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
But if a boats has been on the market for years and years that should be a pretty good indication that the asking price is too high. Or maybe the seller isn't really interested in selling.
Or their is something wrong that shows up every time it is surveyed.
__________________
The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 06-14-2014
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,679
Thanks: 165
Thanked 38 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

I just checked Nada for a 1985 Catalina 30
They said 15k to 17k.

Sounds right about right to me.

They may sell for maybe 20 to 25 so Nada is a little lower than what they actually sell for.

Makes sense if it is a bank number, IE what the bank figures they can get in a fire sale.


Give us some examples.
Boat
Nada
Listing
__________________
The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.

Last edited by davidpm; 06-14-2014 at 10:44 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
need advise on making an offer eSailor General Discussion (sailing related) 34 10-27-2011 04:42 PM
Strategy for making a conditional offer campbdon Boat Review and Purchase Forum 6 03-23-2009 12:06 PM
I'm biting the bullet - making an offer today! josrulz Boat Review and Purchase Forum 47 10-20-2008 12:24 AM
HELP!! Question about making an offer with sellers broker Herbstr Boat Review and Purchase Forum 20 06-27-2002 01:08 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:21 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.