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post #21 of 47 Old 06-14-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

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Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
Even if you go to Sailboat listings it is not uncommon to see listings that were posted in 2011. To me that says one thing, they are asking too much, or it is not really for sale.
The problem I found with sailboatlistings.com is that many people didn't take down the ad after the boat had sold. It got to the point that if it wasn't listed in the previous six months I didn't even bother to send an email, because I got so tired of the responses that said it had already been sold.

And often even after I had inquired, the ad STILL wasn't removed.

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post #22 of 47 Old 06-14-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

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Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
I just checked Nada for a 1985 Catalina 30
They said 15k to 17k.

Sounds right about right to me.

They may sell for maybe 20 to 25 so Nada is a little lower than what they actually sell for.
That "little lower" is 25%-40% or so.

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Last edited by sailpower; 06-14-2014 at 11:43 PM.
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post #23 of 47 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

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That "little lower" is 25%-40% or so.
And then just about two weeks ago I worked with a guy to buy C30 in excellent shape with several extras for I think it was 11,200

It sold cheap because it had a raw water cooled Universal that scared off most people. The motor was rebuilt about 5 years ago and seemed perfect.

Time will tell.

I don't know what my point is except that it seems like there is a wide variation in pricing.
I just looked at the last 20 Catalina 30's sold and they averaged 19k, lowest was 11,200 highest was 27k

I think that the very best value is often the most expensive boat.

Let's say for example you are in the market for a Catalina 30 know they generally go for about 20k.

You find one that in the last 5 years has had. Hull barrier coated, Keel removed and re-bedded and keel boats checked or replaced, Topsides and deck is clean, Winches replaced with two speed self tailing, Hatches and port-lights replaced, Thru-hulls replaced, Custom anchor mount installed, new modern anchor and 30' chain and 200' rhode, new Bimini and dodger, New Beta diesel, new water and fuel tanks, rewired to abyc standards, New windex, depth, radar and electronic package, new standing and running rigging and replaced chain plates, new sails and roller furling and covers and interior cushions.

If the the guy wanted 30k and you had the money that would probably be an awesome deal assuming it didn't have soft decks or a leaky hull deck joint or some other boat deal killer.

The sad thing is that the guy would probably be hard pressed to get 30k for a Catalina 30 that he just put well over 50k into.

As someone has already said the consumables on a boat can easily be worth more that the boat once it is over 20 years old.

The way I explained it to the guy who just got the boat for 11,200. Buying an old boat is like playing Russian roulette only the gun has 50 chambers (The actual risk is unknown and depends on the boat) and only one bullet. Every time you go out you pull the trigger. Most of the time you go sailing and come back, no problem, sometimes something goes boom and you have to fix it.

Another guy I'm working with just bought a Bristol 32. Started it up for the first time and noticed the raw water pump was seized. Boom the bullet was in the chamber, who knew. Costs a few hundred.

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post #24 of 47 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

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Originally Posted by cthoops View Post
The problem I found with sailboatlistings.com is that many people didn't take down the ad after the boat had sold. It got to the point that if it wasn't listed in the previous six months I didn't even bother to send an email, because I got so tired of the responses that said it had already been sold.

And often even after I had inquired, the ad STILL wasn't removed.
That sound backwards to me. Why would you bother with boats that no one wanted for a year. They are probably trash that is over priced.

Would it work to keep track of what is available and jump on boats the same day they are listed? That way you have a chance of getting some fresh meat. The one percent boats, the ones you want, sell for their asking price the day they are listed by someone with cash in their hand.

But yes both buying and selling boats is time consuming and frustrating. That is why they invented yacht brokers.

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Last edited by davidpm; 06-15-2014 at 01:49 AM.
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post #25 of 47 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

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That sound backwards to me. Why would you bother with boats that no one wanted for a year. They are probably trash that is over priced.

Would it work to keep track of what is available and jump on boats the same day they are listed? That way you have a chance of getting some fresh meat. The one percent boats, the ones you want, sell for their asking price the day they are listed by someone with cash in their hand.

But yes both buying and selling boats is time consuming and frustrating. That is why they invented yacht brokers.
Oh I completely agree. Now that I know a tiny bit I definitely wouldn't bother with a boat that had been sitting for so long. But back then when I didn't know anything.... A previous poster had said that it wasn't uncommon to see listings from 2011, noting that they were asking too much or not really for sale. I was just pointing out that in my experience those listings had already sold.

And you're absolutely right about the 1% boats going quickly. I've been hitting Yachtworld hard researching the next boat and have definitely found that to be the case. There was a stunning PSC listed in Noank that, according to the ad, hadn't arrived yet from its Carribean cruise. Within a few days of it's scheduled arrival it was "sale pending". Good thing we're not ready yet to pull the trigger, or there could have been a bidding war.
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post #26 of 47 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

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Originally Posted by JimsCAL View Post
When I was selling my previous boat and buying my current one about 4 years ago, I looked at NADA and BUCValu prices. I found them to be of limited value, especially on older boats. The problem is they don't have enough sales data, so it appears they use some sort of a depreciation factor to generate the number. As noted, soldboats.com is the best source as it gives you actual recent sales. But it is for boating professionals only. If you are working with a broker , he should be willing to give you a report with recent sales of the boat model you are considering.
The problem with soldboats.com is you're relying on brokers being honest about the actual selling price. I got into soldboats.com a couple of weeks ago and none of the boats that I've purchased through a broker had the actual price the boat sold for. Always on the high side.
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post #27 of 47 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

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The problem with soldboats.com is you're relying on brokers being honest about the actual selling price. I got into soldboats.com a couple of weeks ago and none of the boats that I've purchased through a broker had the actual price the boat sold for. Always on the high side.
By how much?

Must depend on the broker. The few that I have checked were recorded correctly.

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post #28 of 47 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

[QUOTE=davidpm;1930554]

I think that the very best value is often the most expensive boat.

QUOTE]

Well said, people that buy a project have no idea what a bottom job, new sails, new line, new standing rigging will cost..

Buy the very best conditioned and loved boat you can find, it'll be cheaper in long run.

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post #29 of 47 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

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Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
By how much?

Must depend on the broker. The few that I have checked were recorded correctly.
Both by about 8%. I think you're right, it does depend on the broker.
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post #30 of 47 Old 06-15-2014
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Re: Making an offer for a sailboat

This subject comes up over, and over again. Here is what I posted on this in another thread;
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I believe that anyone considering the purchase of a used boat should have as much information about the purchase as possible. It is another data point that should help any prospective buyer make an informed decision. Knowing the market for a particular year make and model can be as important as knowing what brand of engine, or the moisture reading of the hull and deck.

I have to respectfully disagree with Main Sail on his characterization on NADA as "Their values have been about as accurate as a drunk shooting darts from 40 yards." Unless he knows better drunk dart players than I do... NADA, IMHO, is consistently at the low end of the spectrum.

I also, respectfully, disagree about soldboats.com being the ONLY close to accurate resource. BUCvalue (Boat Values, Prices, Evaluations, Used Boat Price Guides - BUCValu) is another resource, which I believe is slightly more accurate, and it allows 3 price views in a 3 month time window. I have also looked at SOLD prices in eBay as a data point.

Using your example here is a comparison of the values from the three main sources (BUCvalu, NADAguides, and SoldBoats.com) for a '75 Columbia 26.

BUCvalu; $5450-$6250



NADAguides $5650-$6400 - Note that this is a little HIGHER than BUC



SoldBoats.com

Note the range of years (1972-1978), and the range of dates of sale (1996-2010) that I used in my search... If I tighten up the dates of sale to last year only, there were 2 that sold. The one in GA, listed for $2995, which sold for $2400 after 14 months, and one in NC, listed for $10, and sold for $10 after 20 months. If you were using SoldBoats to figure the current average selling price of this boat (2410 / 2 = $1205), you would be far under what BUC and NADA provide.



I would state that there is more information available through Soldboats.com. However, the only accurate measure of the value of a specific boat to you is what you are willing to pay for it, and what the seller is willing to accept.

I've said this elsewhere in SailNet; "The value of any specific boat (or anything) is only determined after a specific seller and a specific buyer agree to a specific price at a specific time. Changing any one of these can affect the price dramatically."

I hope this helps!
...and here is that thread; NADA no longer providing prices older than 1975


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