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  #21  
Old 06-27-2014
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

Everything I know about sailing I learned from watching Captain Ron!

Just kidding...go out (on calm/moderate) days. Read lots and lots and watch plenty of you tube videos like denise mentioned.

Taking the ASA 101 class doesn't hurt either. Once you "get" the 101 concepts, you will find there is sooooo much more to sail trim and maneuvering that you only learn by reading and doing.

Crew on a race boat. You will learn EXPONENTIALLY faster!
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  #22  
Old 06-27-2014
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
also remember that your jib is the second rudder if you will, it has to be trimmed correctly in all wind angles for you to have correct rudder feel and action.
This reminds me of a time sailing with my dad on our Rebel 16 when the rudder broke off at the waterline and sank as we sailed on. I asked, "now what?" My dad asked for the jib sheet. He sailed the boat steering with the mains'l and jib.

Again I was impressed with his knowledge and immediate action. I was awestruck as a young teen that a boat could be steered without a rudder. He had a smile on his face and said, "how 'bout that?" Then I remember him giving me the jib sheet and the two of us steering the boat together back to our slip. It seemed that the boat turned quicker without the rudder.

I think I'll try steering without the rudder again sometime after locking the tiller amidships.
-CH
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  #23  
Old 06-27-2014
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

"

"edit: post regarding teacher"

Im sorry but that teacher has one thing right and one thing extremely wrong...for one you dont head into the wind when letting go of the tiller on all points of sail, like mentioned before not all boats round up....some round down and that depends on rudder design and also boat handling...crew weight etc...among other factors like wind and wave patterns...boat balance, heel, etc.

if you are in trouble, downwind would that advice fly?

"when in doubt let it out has been a golden standard for centuries"... again still this only mostly applies to points of sail except down wind

for example my clutch main sheet analogy woulndt help on a ddw leg wouldt it cause the sail is going to jam into the rigging...

if you let the mainsheet go ddw on a laser or unstayed mast would that advice fly either?

even the most experienced sailors can have a heck of a hard time regaining controll after the boom has passed the 100-110 degree angle... on a ddw leg. A DEAT ROLL is not fun on big boats...

I think new sailors should learn all points of sail except downwind legs untill they are profficient with the others, this is how I taught kids in the sailing school down here...

the reason is downwind legs are often the ones were most skill are needed to keep the boat steady and where the possibilty of danger is most present, an unwanted gybe, or getting the the main backwinded or rolling, or getting unstable make downwind sailing the hardest thing to learn for new sailors.Not to mention keel position, crew weight and position...sail control etc...

Im sorry but I see where some can argue against sailing classes, if indeed this is being taught it shows how all sailing schools are not created equal.

any good sailor would never recomend letting go of the helm as a safe maneauver..or tactic.I cant think of one instance where other maneuvers wouldnt mark higher up on the list of things to do in case of danger and or difficult circumstances.

Maybe one but not applicable to this discussion.
cheers
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Last edited by christian.hess; 06-27-2014 at 03:20 PM.
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  #24  
Old 06-27-2014
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
This reminds me of a time sailing with my dad on our Rebel 16 when the rudder broke off at the waterline and sank as we sailed on. I asked, "now what?" My dad asked for the jib sheet. He sailed the boat steering with the mains'l and jib.

Again I was impressed with his knowledge and immediate action. I was awestruck as a young teen that a boat could be steered without a rudder. He had a smile on his face and said, "how 'bout that?" Then I remember him giving me the jib sheet and the two of us steering the boat together back to our slip. It seemed that the boat turned quicker without the rudder.

I think I'll try steering without the rudder again sometime after locking the tiller amidships.
-CH
what a nice story! beautiful, its sounds like your dad was a master helmsman(or not in this case) jajajaja

I have similar memories and stories about my dad.

ps the boat turned quicker cause it had no drag effectively skidding from side to side with the control of the sails

another trick for dinghy sailors sans rudder is to use your painter and(im brain farting here translating, the bucket you use to scoop water out if pooped) and drag it on the side you want to turn towards too...mostly works downwind best but always have plan b, c, d, etc...jajaja
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Last edited by christian.hess; 06-27-2014 at 03:24 PM.
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  #25  
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
Im sorry but that teacher has one thing right and one thing extremely wrong...for one you dont head into the wind when letting go of the tiller on all points of sail, like mentioned before not all boats round up....some round down and that depends on rudder design and also boat handling...crew weight etc...among other factors like wind and wave patterns...boat balance, heel, etc.

if you are in trouble, downwind would that advice fly?

"when in doubt let it out has been a golden standard for centuries"... again still this only mostly applies to points of sail except down wind

for example my clutch main sheet analogy woulndt help on a ddw leg wouldt it cause the sail is going to jam into the rigging...

if you let the mainsheet go ddw on a laser or unstayed mast would that advice fly either?

even the most experienced sailors can have a heck of a hard time regaining controll after the boom has passed the 100-110 degree angle... on a ddw leg. A DEAT ROLL is not fun on big boats...

I think new sailors should learn all points of sail except downwind legs untill they are profficient with the others, this is how I taught kids in the sailing school down here...

the reason is downwind legs are often the ones were most skill are needed to keep the boat steady and where the possibilty of danger is most present, an unwanted gybe, or getting the the main backwinded or rolling, or getting unstable make downwind sailing the hardest thing to learn for new sailors.Not to mention keel position, crew weight and position...sail control etc...

Im sorry but I see where some can argue against sailing classes, if indeed this is being taught it shows how all sailing schools are not created equal.

any good sailor would never recomend letting go of the helm as a safe maneauver..or tactic.I cant think of one instance where other maneuvers wouldnt mark higher up on the list of things to do in case of danger and or difficult circumstances.

Maybe one but not applicable to this discussion.
cheers
Actually, I edited my post, because it wasn't the teacher who said to let go of the tiller, but a sailing friend. Don't want to misspeak and give the teacher an unearned bad reputation. He was VERY careful when teaching us to gybe. He made each of us turn the boat downwind enough so that the jib was blocked by the mainsail, so we would learn the signs. We did it each about ten times, and then corrected. When we were ready to actually gybe, we did it very, very slowly and controlled.

The school we attended and the teacher were excellent.
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Last edited by Nancyleeny; 06-27-2014 at 03:27 PM.
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  #26  
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

sorry if it sounded harsh...but I was surprised if it was indeed a sailing instructor saying that...

peace!
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  #27  
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
sorry if it sounded harsh...but I was surprised if it was indeed a sailing instructor saying that...

peace!
No, you were 100% correct to be concerned. I just forgot who said that until I thought about it. I was coming back to correct before I saw your post. My friend told me that and from what you said, it's totally wrong. Or maybe I misunderstood. It's a lot to cram into my 52 year old brain at once.

We took the 101 course and we felt it was worth very penny, because even though we are both moderately intelligent and both still decent athletes, we couldn't imagine how you'd learn on your own and be safe about it. It might seem easy to those of you doing it for years, but it's not - it's very complicated. And can be fraught with danger.

The most valuable thing I think we learned was the "man overboard" drill. My husband and I decided that when we get a chance to sail with someone flexible, or get our own boat, we will do this regularly until it becomes second nature.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I do think that caution when learning is good. When I learned silversmithing, I got a cut or a burn. When you screw up sailing, you can drown.

Thanks, all, for sharing your hard-earned knowledge.
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Old 06-27-2014
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

Giving simplistic procedures to someone who seems to have little if any experience is not a solution because there are most often multiple things to consider in any given situation. While formal lessons are an idea, the way I learned was by going out with someone who knew how to sail and learning the BASICS. There has to be a knowledge base to start from in order to make the right decisions. He is not sailing a small unsinkable boat here, he's sailing one he can get hurt with.
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Giving simplistic procedures to someone who seems to have little if any experience is not a solution because there are most often multiple things to consider in any given situation. While formal lessons are an idea, the way I learned was by going out with someone who knew how to sail and learning the BASICS. There has to be a knowledge base to start from in order to make the right decisions. He is not sailing a small unsinkable boat here, he's sailing one he can get hurt with.
You are very lucky that you had someone to teach you; we have been asking around for years, and if we continued to wait for that someone to show up, we'd never learn!

Are you in the Adirondacks? There aren't a lot of sailors up here, except the Lake George Club, which has a ten year waiting list. I've contacted them several times about crewing, but....crickets. So, we took lessons. I feel it was a good start, at least.
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Re: First Accident What Did I Do Wrong?

I think you've already gotten the important advice:
Turn into the wind until the sails luff, then drop them.

But let me say this: my very first sail, I was 12, I had gotten my parents to buy me a Sunfish. They stood on the shore of Pine Lake, Michigan, while I sailed out. I had zero experience; I'd read books on how to sail. So off I went, wind on the beam, feeling like the Captain of the world. Until the wind gusted, the boat heeled, and I was scared so.... I did just what you did: turned to put the wind behind me. Capsize was almost instant. It was April; the water was very cold.

It was Sailing Lesson #1. I'm 62 now; I think I'm on lesson 5000+ Still learning. Congrats on your boat. Keep learning!
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