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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #1  
Old 04-17-2006
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Question Keel or not

Just bought a Catalina 22 for very low money and now I know why. There is no keel on her . When making the deal I had noticed that the wench cable was broken and asked the seller if the the keel was there and of course YES it is there. Ya right... moving on, I need to find the dominations of the keel or just the keel itself. If there is anything anybody can do to help me in my search it would greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old 04-17-2006
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
You may be able to get some help here:
http://www.catalinaowners.com/

or here:
www.catalinayachts.com
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Old 04-17-2006
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sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
If the seller represented the boat as complete with keel, selling it without a keel is FRAUD.
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Old 04-18-2006
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I'm no lawyer, but.............

I think Saildog is correct and you may have legal recourse even in a private transaction. I would contact a lawyer and ask him to send a letter to the seller asking for a refund + expenses.

Another route might be small claims court if there is one in your state. Keep us posted on what you do. I know in my state a small claims summons is pretty cheap to deliver.

When the seller finds out you are taking legal action, you will probably get your money back quickly. I cannot imagine the seller having a leg to stand on if this went to court.
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Old 04-18-2006
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Sonny, you were taken but the seller may have actually told you the truth. There are swing keels, lifting keels, and CENTERBOARDS. It sounds like your boat is missing the CENTERBOARD and that would be housed in the keel or keel stub. So, yes, the centerboard could be missing while yes, the keel was still there.

A "wench" is a medieval word for a woman. A WINCH is a mechanical device for moving lines.

Keels and centerboards don't have DOMINATIONS, they have DIMENSIONS.

Makes no difference to me, I know what you meant, but little differences like that can get you.
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Old 04-18-2006
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LOL, Jared has a good point. Is the keel missing or is the centerboard missing? Huge difference, like the difference between Lightning and a Lightning Bug, to bastardize the words of Mark Twain.
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Old 04-18-2006
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Get you money back , the swing KEEL is missing.

Catalina 22's are generaly considered to have a 'Swing Keel'. If you google both (catalina 22 centerboard) and (catalina 22 swing keel) you will see a big difference, much more for swing keel.

I acknowledge that this is in some ways a fine point and it can be argued both ways, however the swing keel is demonstatably the more common term in use when describing the boat.

Talk to a lawyer and get your money back. Next time, you know to spend a little more time looking and poking around for obvious flaws and things missing. We all do it and I have been bit by the same mistake and no one to blame but myself and a somewhat sharp seller.

Best of luck......
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Old 04-18-2006
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Spelling

OK, so my spelling is not that great but as far as the boat goes it is a KEEL not a centerboard in a keel or a daggerboard in a keel.
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Old 04-19-2006
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One other thing... depending on how much a replacement keel costs, the person who sold you the boat could be charged criminally. Defrauding a person through misrepresentation may be a felony, depending on the amount involved and the particular state's laws. I believe in Virginia, the amount is $200 and it becomes a felony. I'd bet the keel costs more than than.
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Old 04-19-2006
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In The Annapolis Book of Seamanship, a "keel" is defined as "An appendage or fin on the boat's bottom that provides deep ballast and lateral area." The Catalina 22 is designed to have a cast iron device that rotates on a pin in the bottom of the boat and that is raised and lowered by a cable. The purpose of that cast iron device is to "provide deep ballast and lateral area," and it is, therefore, a "keel." Rousmaniere defines a "centerboard" as "A retractable appendage in the keel or hull." That same cast iron device on a Catalina 22 also meets the definition of a "centerboard." Therefore, that device is both a "keel" and a "centerboard." In short, a centerboard is a type of keel.

If the seller told you the keel was there, then that cast iron appendage should have been there.
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