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Sail Drives?

7K views 24 replies 19 participants last post by  arvicola-amphibius 
#1 ·
Hello All,

We have looked at a lot of possible purchases such as, Catalina 27's, Northern 29's and Aloha 28's. I've seen a few Catalina 27's and they all have everything we are looking for. The problem is, most have been aux. powered by OMC sail drives.
From what I've read, these are not the favored choice. Please offer your opinion?

Cheers,
 
#2 ·
I have never used one.. but I dislike the huge hole you need in the hull to mount them.

Having said that.. a lot of new boats are coming out with saildrives, so I guess they are not all bad
 
#3 ·
Not a fan, also disclaimer, I've never owned a boat with one and very traditional in taste.

Not just the big hole, but also putting a lot of metal in the water to corrode.

To be fair, I'm told that you use up less room in the engine compartment than the usual slant arrangement with transmission, shaft, stuffing box. Also, I've heard you get less prop wash and more efficiency since the prop is actually pointing in the direction you want to go. One of my favorite builders uses them in the fancy day sailers.
 
#4 ·
I would personally steer clear of them, especially the older ones. Many/some had issues with the gasketing or "bellows". Either way to repair or replace it requires a haulout and is a tough job for a DIY sailor. Yard rates are high, and experience with drives and their installation short.

The newer ones may be better installed, but still suffer from design issues and some makers have had issue with proper installation, dealers are hesitant to get involved in something that is between the drive manufacturer and the boat builder. That then causes fingerpointing about "who" did it wrong and who pays for it to be repaired, correctly. If it can be repaired, as a couple of issues I read about indicate design/build issues with the grid/support system for the drive system. One issue was there was insufficient ring in the hull to properly seal the bellows, another indicated the wrong angle of installation, another made it impossible to reach service points without removing the entire unit.

YMMV, and BTW the reason the builders are returning is that it is cheaper to use this compact unit and it saves space over conventional engine/reverser/shaft/packing gland/prop.
 
#6 ·
Hey,

As mentioned there are pros and cons of Saildrive.

Pro:
Sailing performance is better - much less drag than long shaft / strut. Especially if fitted with folding / feathering prop
No leaking stuffing box
no prop walk
boat backs straight
Better performance under power because prop is not at downward angle

Cons:
Need to be real careful about electrolysis. Be real vigilant about ANODES
Need to replace bellows on a regular basis (I think it's 7 years)
I have never met a yard manager or service person who like them (but they always seem grumpy no matter what).

My last two boats had traditional engine / prop arrangements with shaft log / stuffing box, strut, cutless bearing, coupler, etc. My current boat has a sail drive. So far (and it's been less than a year) I like the saildrive. My last boat came with an old rotten stuffing box. To fix that required the rudder get dropped, the shaft pulled (which required a new shaft and coupling), and a new cutless bearing. Changing the saildrive gasket will be cheaper than all that.

Barry
 
#7 ·
I have two of 'em, (catamaran) and there are thousands of them installed on catamarans, so they're not particularly uncommon per se, just not common on monohulls.

IMO Barry has nutshelled pretty well. (except the prop walk, I don't know that I agree with that) I watched the tech replace my saildrive gaskets (Volvo) and actually it's not that difficult. I've posted about the process, so if you do a search, you should be able to find my descriptions

IIRC Volvo's gasket replacement sked is nine years. Different makes have different requirements. Bear in mind, though, that Volvo did invent the saildrive.

Googling will find lots and lots of discussions...
 
#9 · (Edited)
I had a Buhk saildrive on a boat that I owned for 14 years. As a broad generality, I found that the saildrive worked fine in general usage. There was noticably less propwalk which took some getting used to and was missed when trying to spin the boat in tight quarters. But for the most part there were few problems in day to day use.

Speaking of saildrives in general, the downside is that aluminum housings tend to be very vulnerable to electrolysis. I coated mine with epoxy when I bought the boat. Saildrives are extremely dependent on proprietary parts and when a manufacturer decides to price these parts like they are made from 'unaffordium', any small repair part such as a zinc, seal replacement, boot leak alarm, or boot replacement can be wildly expensive. Even worse, when a manufacturer decides not to support an older model, the parts become impossible to get.

Saildrive transmissions are miniaturized to fit within the hub of the drive, and so tend to be less robust, and unlike most normal transmissions you cannot routinely buy a rebuilt saildrive.

Unlike a normal marine transmission, you cannot work on the saildrive while the boat is in the water. That includes routine annual maintenance items like changing the transmission fluid and on some models, changing the zincs. It means that you either use the transmission fluid longer than the manufacturer recommends and risk electrolysis or you haul annually whether the boat needs to be hauled or not.

Often there is only one propeller by one manufacturer that will fit the outdrive shaft. If that is a shortlived, unreliable, and badly mfr. supported propeller like a Gori, you were out of luck since that is all that fit on that shaft. Normal props generally do not fit outdrives.

Now then, speaking specifically about the OMC units, these were light and inexpensive adaptations of an outboard motor. They were used because they were cheap to buy and install. If properly maintained, they were reasonably reliable, but OMC's were seen as being short-lived units whose use-by-date has long since passed. That would not be the end of the world if these were easily rebuilt engines like an Atomic 4, but they are not. But the really big (as in deal breaker) issue with rebuilding one is the near total lack of available replacement parts.

To the best of my understanding, OMC stopped supporting these engines a couple decades ago. There were suppliers who had bought up a bunch of left over parts and supported them for quite a while, but last I heard, those folks are no longer around. (Someone please correct me if some company has become the 'Moyer Marine' of OMC saildrives.) So buying a boat with an OMC Saildrive is buying a boat with a somewhat unreliable engine, near the end of its life, that lacks replacement parts, and which is not a 'plug and play' fit with other repowering options. Most of the Cat 27's that I know of that had these engines have had the engine removed, the hole glassed shut, and an outboard on a bracket installed on the transom.

Jeff
 
#16 ·
Now then, speaking specifically about the OMC units, these were light and inexpensive adaptations of an outboard motor. They were used because they were cheap to buy and install. If properly maintained, they were reasonably reliable, but OMC's were seen as being short-lived units whose use-by-date has long since passed. That would not be the end of the world if these were easily rebuilt engines like an Atomic 4, but they are not. But the really big (as in deal breaker) issue with rebuilding one is the near total lack of available replacement parts.

To the best of my understanding, OMC stopped supporting these engines a couple decades ago. There were suppliers who had bought up a bunch of left over parts and supported them for quite a while, but last I heard, those folks are no longer around. (Someone please correct me if some company has become the 'Moyer Marine' of OMC saildrives.) So buying a boat with an OMC Saildrive is buying a boat with a somewhat unreliable engine, near the end of its life, that lacks replacement parts, and which is not a 'plug and play' fit with other repowering options. Most of the Cat 27's that I know of that had these engines have had the engine removed, the hole glassed shut, and an outboard on a bracket installed on the transom.

Jeff
This is what dooms them for me, no parts, no support, and generally poor design to begin with.

And as far as not having a stuffing box, well I would rather have a leaking, mostly filled two inch hole in my hull than an 14 inch (or how ever big the hole is) hole with a "bellows" holding out the water. Stuffing boxes will give warning by leaking more and more. Then it costs about $20 to fix with a bit of packing and can be done without hulling. Sail drive, will start leaking after the bellows tears or splits and will not give any warning, and you have to pull the boat to save it, let alone fix it. I would not discount a boat with one, but figure replacing the bellows well before its time and watch it like a hawk. Now an OMC no way would I buy one. Perhaps if it was cheap enough to include in the price the cost of re fiberglassing the hole in the hull, and putting on an outboard.
 
#10 ·
Thanks!
As usual great information offered. I suppose when buying a sailboat from the 70's or early 80's you are taking a chance on the condition of the aux. power source. That's why
my search has lasted this long, I just can't make that offer. Oh well, I guess it will eventually happen?

Cheers,
 
#13 ·
As Jeff suggested there is a big difference between the OMC sail drives and others like Volvo. Even if part supply was not a problem for the OMCs (and my understanding is that it is a huge problem) I would still stay away because it is basically an outboard motor. The diesel ones are generally quite good and I would not have a problem buying one assuming it had been maintained, but that is like all other parts of the boat of course. There are ways around the electrolysis problem.
 
#17 ·
I would not discount any saildrive if you could get it cheap enough for the simple reason that glassing the hole closed and putting on a 9.9 hp outboard is a pretty good solution for a 27/28 foot boat. There are many advantages to the outboard that do not exist with inboard setups. The engine tips out of the water when not in use and can be hosed off or flushed out. it can be removed easily and taken to the shop. the new 4 strokes are dependable and quiet and can also be used on the dingy. they use tiny amounts of fuel, to replace it you just pop it off the transom and pop a new one on for around 2500 bucks. I could go on but im sure you get the picture.
 
#19 ·
Most of the Cat 27's that I know of that had these engines have had the engine removed, the hole glassed shut, and an outboard on a bracket installed on the transom.
That is exactly what I want to do with my oday 28. Looking at 9.9-15hp bolted on the transom. Need to find source for how to hook up remote throttle, start switch, and charge batteries etc. Where to go?
Thanks
Also, should I replace removed omc motor weight with sandbags where the motor was?
 
#21 ·
Owner of one, Yanmar SD50.

When we bought our boat in 2012 I was REALLY hesitant about buying the boat due to it having a Saildrive. I knew at the time every boat purchase is a matter of balancing compromises with likes. This was a compromise that nearly pushed me away completely from buying it. I also have a maxprop on it. It does provides horizontal thrust and I can cruise all day at 7.8 to 8 knts when the wind dies. It does back up like a dream, near zero prop walk.

I have done three lube changes on it myself. It can all be done while the boat is in the water. Extracting and injecting 90 weight is no easy chore but I have the process down now. I also test the water sensors in the bellows at the same time. I am religious about changing the anodes, every 4 months regardless, w/ inspection of unit by a diver. The SD anodes are not cheap, $27 a set. I am not looking forward to the bellows change out in 4 years. The yard said to expect the labor charge to be north of $2K, ouch.

We love the boat so much that we accept this as a HUGE compromise. Do I wish it had a standard shaft drive, absolutely. But I have no buyers remorse at all. I am just hyper vigilant about maintenance of the saildrive. I do wonder if this technology has legs for the long term. It is a PITA and it pisses me off at times, especially when I have 90 weight dripping from my elbows during the fricken annual lube changes, what a PITA.
 
#22 ·
No experience with OMC saildrive here...but 30 years experience with Yanmar SD20 sail drive
Did the research when bought boat new in 1985...motor (Yanmar 3GM)and saildrive
live in the aft 3-4 foot of boat, have great access to saildrive and motor on 3 sides,
mtor and sail drive are instsall 180 degrees so SD is up front and can inspect seals
while sitting in my full beam queen size aft bunk under cockpit on my 30 fter.
No issues with electrolisis as boat liveson mooring with little to no stray current.
Change gear oil less than i should, change zinc every year. Great power, reverse
with flex o fold prop. Have never changed seals by advise of Yanmar dealer who
stands to make good $$ to do job. I would change if going off shore.
Have to go now.
 
#23 · (Edited)
$2k to change the bellows? Ouch alright! That is more than my entire annual maintenance cost, including what it costs me to haul out every 18 months.
Another reason I would never have a sail drive is because where I sail we often have lobster pots, sometimes 30 or more miles out to sea. The fishermen are not too worried about how much floating line is left on the surface to catch the unwary. Until you have had one of those suckers wrapped around your skeg while surfing at 8 knots in the dark you have no idea of the forces involved as your boat picks up this huge sea anchor and drags it for miles while you wake up, realise why the boat has gybed and taken off in the wrong direction, tumble out of your bunk and go on deck to struggle to luff up and cut it free.
I am sure it would have snapped a sail drive clean out of the boat.
 
#24 ·
Wow, now we have Saildrive "wives tails" . lets see how many ways we can make up stories about what is going to happen if you have a Saildrive. Sorry to disappoint guys but the tails are just not true for the new modern drives.
The modern Saildrive is hear to stay and alive and well. Lobster pots hanging on the sail drive is not easy to do with the big keel just in front of it. you must be good at it. practice a lot do you? Oh thats right you do not have a Saildrive to practice with. Keels and rudders it can and will happen but on the sail drive, Not easy to do.
catching a lobster pot on a prop strut has never happened either, no one has ever ripped out a strut and had to have it repaired at cost of more the $2k+.
To have a thread to discuss the ups and downs that have happened to a Saildrive is one thing but to continue to speculate on what might happen . well what if we make a boat and remove the full keel and add a strut and bulb for a keel I am sure that won't work either. Oh wait I have one of those and they do work and have crossed oceans even with a Saildrive riding along.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Overbored perhaps you should take the moniker 'overbearing'.

No need for sarcasm or rudeness because you disagree. Just give a rational counter-argument and we can all play like nice children here.

FWIW, if you have floating poly line supported by a string of floats and you run over it, there is a very good chance that it will pop right back up to snag the first thing hanging off the hull which COULD be a saildrive leg. I don't need to practise with a saildrive to find out, as I have had more than one encounter with floating line on a variety of hull configurations. I have had it catch the prop, the skeg and a spade rudder right up where it is close to the hull. The only constant seems to be that it always happens at night, so maybe if you only sail by day you are immune (my attempt at sarcasm - sorry...).

Also consider that not all sailing boats come with a long keel - some have short keels a long way forward of the prop, others may sail at times with the centreboard(s) retracted.

I will never buy a boat with a saildrive, any more than I want a multi-hull or fractional rig; plenty others will have all of the above and live happily ever after. Let's just agree to disagree.
 
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